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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Thora - 2012-02-05
Do complementizer と and "with"/"and" と share roots?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-02-05
About this one:
ショパンはピアノに向かって座り、弾きはじめた。
I don't understand the 向かって座り part.
I guess 座る is the noun form of the verb but I can't make head or tails of 向かって (facing towards?).
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - nadiatims - 2012-02-05
ピアノに向かって
facing the piano
Chopin sat facing the piano, and begun playing.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - zigmonty - 2012-02-05
turvy Wrote:About this one:Chopin sat facing the piano and began to play.
ショパンはピアノに向かって座り、弾きはじめた。
I don't understand the 向かって座り part.
I guess 座る is the noun form of the verb but I can't make head or tails of 向かって (facing towards?).
座り is not the noun form of 座る (well, it is... but not in this context). This is the formal equivalent of て form (magamo wrote a crazy awesome post on it once).
Edit: damn beaten to it.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-02-05
Thanks, I think I get the facing towards part now but the 座り part (got) messed up (in my brain) after reading your post.
Now I am trying to find that thread. Sounds interesting.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tori-kun - 2012-02-05
@zigmonty: can you link the post of magamo? I find it difficult to keep the rules when you can/are allowed/must use て／masu-stem verb for enumerations... Thank you!! :D
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - turvy - 2012-02-05
Darn, and I hadn't gotten as far as to the て form yet :mad:
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2012-02-05
blackbrich Wrote:I guess I understood the sentence afterall, but didn't have the background for the story so it seemed ridiculous. I guess I should have took it for what it was considering its a "story" about 妖怪.Which is why it's important to provide context. It just so happens that my translation was pretty much correct, but sometimes without context translations can be way off. If you just post the link from the beginning or give a little explanation of where you found whatever you're wondering about, it makes everyone's lives a lot easier. Especially since in Japanese you just drop most pronouns.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-02-05
Thora Wrote:Do complementizer と and "with"/"and" と share roots?Probably, although it's a little hard to say since both meanings exist in the oldest written Japanese...they're probably related, though, I think.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - zigmonty - 2012-02-05
Tori-kun Wrote:@zigmonty: can you link the post of magamo? I find it difficult to keep the rules when you can/are allowed/must use て／masu-stem verb for enumerations... Thank you!!Hmm... can't find it. Sorry.
Ok... here's my best attempt at a summary. Hopefully someone will correct me if i get any of it wrong. Magamo described the form of 座り as て form without the て. It just so happens that this て form without the て *is* the ます stem. But that's looking at it backwards (which is what results when beginners are taught ます first). The real grammar point is 連用形, the conjunctive form. This is what you conjugate to when you're going to attach stuff directly to a verb, for example たい, ます, ながら or, wait for it, て. The thing that obscures this is that a sound change happens when て is attached. Hence what should be 座りて becomes 座って. But the naked conjunctive form, 座り, can also be used where て form can be used, it just has a more formal tone.
I'm not sure there are any rules as to when you must/must not use て form vs ます-stem. They're equivalent (at least i can't think of an example where they're not...) as far as i know, just with a different tone.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - jpkuelho - 2012-02-05
俺は俺で シラケちまい
what does シラケちまい means?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - thurd - 2012-02-10
Tomehane episode 1, boy says to a girl during judo sparring (from JP subtitles):
おれ お前に マジぼれした。
Translated in subtitles as: "I'm.. serious about you."
Tried to find something about it but only managed to confirm that such phrase "マジぼれ" exists and is used but I'm still not sure about the ぼれ part. Is it おぼれる but only slashed to pieces? There is one meaning that seems to support this theory "(2) to indulge in; to lose one's head over something; to wallow in".
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Fillanzea - 2012-02-10
マジぼれ is a mash-up of マジ and 惚れる （ほれる）. マジ is slang for 'really, seriously'; 惚れる is 'to fall in love.'
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - thurd - 2012-02-10
Fillanzea Wrote:マジぼれ is a mash-up of マジ and （ほれる）. マジ is slang for 'really, seriously'; 惚れる is 'to fall in love.'Thanks, that makes more sense then my interpretation.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - HonyakuJoshua - 2012-02-10
Have I got this sentence anywhere near right?
ＵＳＢホスト機器への着脱が可能なコネクタを含むＵＳＢインタフェースと、少なくとも一つのメモリカードが装着可能なカードコネクタを有するＵＳＢストレージデバイスであって
A USB storage device that possesses a card connector that can install at least one memory card and a USB interface that includes a connector that can install to a USB Host
I am not sure about the kanou nas and would appreciate if the kind experts could correct me again.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pudding cat - 2012-02-10
I came up with
A USB interface with a connector that allows connection to a USB host and a USB storage device with a card connector that allows the installation of at least one memory card
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - kusterdu - 2012-02-10
I didn't know where to ask this, but does anybody know why the kanji "処" is sometimes used instead of "所"? It doesn't really matter because I can still read it, but I was just curious.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - HonyakuJoshua - 2012-02-11
@kusterdu You really need a context for me and the many forum members more knowledgeable than me to explain more. - the hiragana どこ can be written 何所 or 何処 in Kanji. Quite a few words can be written with different kanji in Japanese and be translated the same way in English.
@puddingcat I thing usb storage device is the head noun WHICH/THAT possesses a card connector that can install at least one memory card AND a USB interface that includes a connector that can install to a USB Host.
Where do you get the noun connector from?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - nadiatims - 2012-02-11
It comes from chinese. 処 (chu 4th tone)=place. Also words like 処所 (chusuo)=ばしょ and 処処(chuchu)=どこでも etc
edit: note 処 (chu 3rd tone) is the meaning you're probably more familiar with in Japanese appearing in compounds like 処刑、処分、処理、処置 etc.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - HonyakuJoshua - 2012-02-11
nadiatims Wrote:It comes from chinese. 処 (chu 4th tone)=place. Also words like 処所 (chusuo)=ばしょ and 処処(chuchu)=どこでも etcS/he typed "kanji" surely s/he meant Japanese... Why confuse the OP with references to Chinese?
edit: note 処 (chu 3rd tone) is the meaning you're probably more familiar with in Japanese appearing in compounds like 処刑、処分、処理、処置 etc.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - nadiatims - 2012-02-11
because Japanese is influenced by the chinese language. One of the original meanings of the character 処 in chinese seems to be 'place', so that is most likely why it is sometimes used instead of 所 in japanese. When the japanese adopted the chinese writing system way back when, they had a choice of characters 処 or 所 to represent the wago ところ.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - kusterdu - 2012-02-11
@HonyakuJoshua
Sorry for not providing a context, but it's a general trend I have noticed: it seems that 処 can substitute for 所 in many words such as 所々 (処々), 諸所 (諸処), and of course 何所 (何処). Even the very basic "ところ" can be written with either kanji.
@nadiatims
Thanks for the explanation. I have heard that Chinese has a tendency towards redundancy and so contains many compound words which are a combination of two words with similar meanings (or one word and the dummy word "子"). Is "処所" (chusho) just another example of this?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - nadiatims - 2012-02-11
Yeah there is often redundancy. My chinese isn't good enough to speculate about 処所 specifically.
One thing I've sometimes speculated about is that maybe redundant kanji often came about out of a need to write multi-syllabic words. You see this a lot with insects and animals. For example tanglang(蟷螂) means praying mantis. Presumedly, people had words for this insect long before they invented a writing system. So they simply added phonetic components (當 and 郎) to the 虫 radical to get 蟷螂. This means you end up with 2 characters seemingly pointing to the same meaning "praying mantis" and the original etymology of tang and lang is not necessarily reflected in the written form. It's just a 虫 pronounced 當郎.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-02-11
Probably. There's a tendency in Chinese to avoid single-syllable words, probably because of the high potential for ambiguity otherwise. Written literary classical Chinese uses a lot of them because you have the kanji to disambiguate, but the spoken language (probably even the classical spoken language) uses many 2-syllable (or more) words instead. Of course this has influenced Japanese as well, and you see things like the dummy 子 there too.
(EDIT: And as nadiatims said, apparently the idea that one kanji represents one syllable was a pretty early development so that you get words like 蟋蟀 where the individual kanji have no meaning by themselves but only function in the compound.)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - nadiatims - 2012-02-11
The interesting thing is the Japanese have used a lot of these written forms even though they are just a phonetic transcription in chinese. The 當 and 郎 in 蟷螂（かまきり）and the 悉 and 率 in 蟋蟀（こおろぎ） are just meaningless artifacts in japanese. The japanese could have used native phonetic markers like 釜/金 and 切 for かまきり or 氷 and 義 for こおろぎ or something.