+- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com)
+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The Japanese language (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-10.html)
+--- Thread: The "What's this word/phrase?" thread (/thread-3249.html)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - blackbrich - 2011-12-30
Ｉ ｗａｓ ｃｏｎｆｕｓｅｄ ｂｙ ｔｈｅ ｆｉｒｓｔ ｐａｒｔ Ｉ ｐｕｔ ｕｐ ｔｈｅｒｅ． Ｃｏｕｌｄｎ’ｔ ｍａｋｅ ｈｅａｄｓ ｏｒ ｔａｉｌｓ ｏｆ ｉｔ． Ｔｈａｎｋ ｙｏｕ ｉｔ ｍａｋｅｓ ｓｅｎｓｅ ｔｏ ｍｅ ｎｏｗ． Ｉ ｇｕｅｓｓ Ｉ ｊｕｓｔ ｄｉｄｎ’ｔ ｕｎｄｅｒｓｔａｎｄ ｈｏｗ 挟む ｗａｓ ａｃｔｕａｌｌｙ ｕｓｅｄ．
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2011-12-30
lardycake Wrote:Having a bit of trouble with a simple sentence.The 本当に is for emphasis, so そうですね can have it's usually meaning, but a bit stronger and with more emphasis. One of many possible English equivalents would be "Yeah, that's really true, isn't it?"
本当にそうですね。
My understanding is that 本当 means "really"
Literal translation of そうですね is "that is true"? Although when used in conversation it is used more as "hmmm, let me see..."
So the sentence is saying "Really is true".
My question is: Am I correct with all that, and does the に = is ?
に is not 'is.' です is the 'is' in this sentence. Though, there are differences between the Japanese です and the English 'is.' 'Is' in English is used to connect a subject with a predicate, which is what です does (so does だ). But 'is' also means existence, which in Japanese is done with いる or ある, not with です or だ. And grammatically English and Japanese are so different that you really shouldn't think of anything in Japanese as the equivalent of any English grammar.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - GoodSirJava - 2011-12-30
I'm trying to pin down the meaning of the bold passage here:
Quote:３０日午後のニューヨーク外国為替市場で円相場が一段高となった。対ユーロで一時１ユーロ＝９９円８１銭と２００１年６月に付けた９９円８５銭を上回り、００年１２月以来、約１１年ぶりの高値を付けた。欧州債務問題への懸念が根強く、円買い・ユーロ売りが広がりやすい地合になっている。
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - fakewookie - 2011-12-30
With fears about the European debt crisis worsening, market conditions are causing buying the yen and selling the euro to become more widespread.
地合
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - kudokupo - 2011-12-31
この地上にいける
神の子らよ
祈り信じよ
されば救われん
From FMA manga, can anyone help? Was thinking 信じよされば was 信じ+よされば（よす to cease) but the line breaks there so not sure.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2011-12-31
This is pseudo-classical Japanese that you sometimes find in modern stuff (like in incantations here)
The modern equivalents:
いける -> 生きている
子らよ -> 子ら (the よ is a particle that appears after a name or noun when addressing them to get their attention or such)
信じよ -> 信じろ (i.e. command)
されば -> そうすれば
救われん -> 救われよう (this is a declaration of the speaker's intent, or a supposition, depending on the context)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - temporary - 2011-12-31
「神は仰いました。信じよ、されば救われる。罪人も悪しき者も正しき者も」(旧約聖書の引用です)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - kudokupo - 2011-12-31
Thank you
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Betelgeuzah - 2012-01-01
What's going on here?
待つ → 待て
It's a simple -te form but what I don't get is why it's "mote" and not "motte".
I thought that ru,u,tsu verbs get double t when conjugated in -te form?
Sorry for the lack of kana.
EDIT: actually it isn't a simple -te form after all. No wonder I was confused there. Problem solved!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - zigmonty - 2012-01-01
It's the imperative form, totally different conjugation.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Splatted - 2012-01-01
Betelgeuzah Wrote:What's going on here?That's actually まて, not もて, and it means wait. もて is written 持て, has the finger primitve on the left, and means hold.
待つ → 待て
It's a simple -te form but what I don't get is why it's "mote" and not "motte".
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - zigmonty - 2012-01-01
Splatted Wrote:Oops... i didn't get past "It's a simple -te form". Yeah, pretty different meaning there.Betelgeuzah Wrote:What's going on here?That's actually まて, not もて, and it means wait. もて is written 持て, has the finger primitve on the left, and means hold.
待つ → 待て
It's a simple -te form but what I don't get is why it's "mote" and not "motte".
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Elenkis - 2012-01-01
それから、日本語で答えてくれる場合でも、普通の日本人の使わないような、変な日本語で答えられることも多いそうだ。
Ok, I understand what this sentence says but I just have a grammatical question.
Is "普通の日本人の使わないような" modifying "変な日本語", or are "普通の日本人の使わないような" and "変な" both modifying "日本語"? If that makes any sense... The comma just makes me wonder.
Thanks!
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - HonyakuJoshua - 2012-01-01
番犬のいるのど元首輪にマイクロフィルムカメラを付け
In the above sentence does nodo just mean throat?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pm215 - 2012-01-01
Elenkis Wrote:それから、日本語で答えてくれる場合でも、普通の日本人の使わないような、変な日本語で答えられることも多いそうだ。I think I'd say that both are modifying 日本語, although there isn't a great deal of difference between the two alternatives you suggest. Is "big red truck" a red truck which is big, or a truck which is both big and red?
Ok, I understand what this sentence says but I just have a grammatical question.
Is "普通の日本人の使わないような" modifying "変な日本語", or are "普通の日本人の使わないような" and "変な" both modifying "日本語"? If that makes any sense... The comma just makes me wonder.
The comma is a helpful insert to cue you that 普通の日本人の使わないような is not modifying 変, which would be a significantly different (and wrong) grammatical analysis. (NB: the lack of a comma in this situation doesn't imply anything either way, not all authors put in commas in this kind of situation.)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - zigmonty - 2012-01-01
HonyakuJoshua Wrote:番犬のいるのど元首輪にマイクロフィルムカメラを付けYes, but 喉元 means throat as well. The first kanji being written in kana probably stopped you from getting a hit in your dictionary.
In the above sentence does nodo just mean throat?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - zigmonty - 2012-01-01
pm215 Wrote:Yeah, if you prefer to see 変な日本語 as a noun phrase that can itself be modified by an adjective, i don't think that style of thinking will get you in trouble. I tend to see it as a list of things modifying a single noun though.Elenkis Wrote:それから、日本語で答えてくれる場合でも、普通の日本人の使わないような、変な日本語で答えられることも多いそうだ。I think I'd say that both are modifying 日本語, although there isn't a great deal of difference between the two alternatives you suggest
Ok, I understand what this sentence says but I just have a grammatical question.
Is "普通の日本人の使わないような" modifying "変な日本語", or are "普通の日本人の使わないような" and "変な" both modifying "日本語"? If that makes any sense... The comma just makes me wonder.
On the other hand, i wonder how much order matters. Does "変な、普通の日本人の使わないような日本語" sound strange? If so, is it because of length or are there rules like in english (can't say "red big truck")?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Elenkis - 2012-01-01
Thanks for the responses. I realised that it didn't really make any difference to the meaning of the sentence, but sometimes I perhaps obsess a bit too much about knowing exactly how/why things work grammatically. So like to make sure I'm not missing anything.
My initial instinct was that they were both modifying 日本語, but I thought it would be good to check.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - HonyakuJoshua - 2012-01-01
予め記憶装置に格納された、パスワード及びＥメールアドレスを含む被送信者に関するデータを含んだＣＳＶ型式の送信用データから１つのＰＤＦファイルを作成し、記憶装置に格納するステップと、ページ分解用インデックスデータを作成し、記憶装置に格納するステップと、パスワード用インデックスデータを作成し、記憶装置に格納するステップと、各ＰＤＦファイルに対応すページ分解用インデックスデータを用いて、ＰＤＦファイルのデータを各被送信者毎のデータに分解するステップと、パスワード用インデックスデータを用いて、各ＰＤＦファイルに対応するパスワードを付与して、パスワード付きＰＤＦファイルを作成するステップとを含む。
I am not sure what noun the 格納された modifies
I think it might be the last one I.e (ＰＤＦファイルを作成する)ステップI know this is a long sentence but I really don't know the answer.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Fillanzea - 2012-01-01
That is one hella complicated sentence.
I believe that 格納された modifies ＣＳＶ型式の送信用データ.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - HonyakuJoshua - 2012-01-01
Thanks for the reply Fillanzea - it is indeed complicated, it is obviously a patent. Can I ask how you concluded that it modifies ＣＳＶ型式の送信用データ. and not another noun like パスワード及びＥメールアドレス ?
This isn't a loaded question, I just honestly don't understand.
Josh
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2012-01-01
Is it OK to be posting quotations from this patent in a public forum? Is this paid official translation work you're doing?
(As for the question, I have no idea -- I don't understand the words and concepts, and there's no way to answer the question purely on the basis of structure/grammar. It seems to me that it has to be either 被送信者 or ＣＳＶ型式の送信用データ but I'm not sure which one. My gut instinct is for the latter but I really don't know.)
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - HonyakuJoshua - 2012-01-01
@yudantaiteki as I said on the Kanji Gold thread my aim is to now STUDY patent translation.
The patent is available to the public which is how I got it.
If I was getting paid to do a translation I would have colleagues who would probably know the answer. I have been paid to translate, but nothing as complex as this.
What (grammatically) lead you to believe that it has to be either 被送信者 or ＣＳＶ型式の送信用データ?
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Fillanzea - 2012-01-01
I do think the sentence is grammatically ambiguous, but I'll give it a shot.
予め記憶装置に格納された、パスワード及びＥメールアドレスを含む被送信者に関するデータを含んだＣＳＶ型式の送信用データから１つのＰＤＦファイルを作成し
予め記憶装置に格納された "that have been stored in memory in advance"...
、 The comma is the main reason to think that it's not modifying パスワード及びＥメールアドレス. Grammar isn't 100% consistent in terms of when relative clauses have a comma and when they don't, but usually a comma isn't present in this kind of situation unless there's something else coming between the verb that modifies and the noun that gets modified. So you have to put 予め記憶装置に格納された to the side for a moment and see what happens to パスワード及びＥメールアドレス.
パスワード及びＥメールアドレスを含む "including passwords and e-mail addresses..."
And now you have to move on to what パスワード及びＥメールアドレスを含む modifies.
被送信者 "recipients"? It's not likely that recipients include passwords and e-mail addresses, so can we interpret this as part of a relative clause?
被送信者に関するデータ "data pertaining to recipients." There! It is plausible that "data pertaining to recipients" includes e-mail addresses and passwords.
So now we have "data pertaining to recipients including (such things as) passwords and email addresses," and 予め記憶装置に格納された is still sitting out there by itself.
And I think it's grammatically possible that 予め記憶装置に格納された could modify "data," but if I were writing a patent, I don't think I would prefer to write about "data" just floating around amorphously on some memory device. If we go on just a little further, we get -- ＣＳＶ型式の送信用データ
"CSV-formatted data for transmission use that includes data pertaining to recipients including (such things as) passwords and email addresses." And that sounds like a good candidate to be modified by 記憶装置に格納された.
So, let's for the moment treat 予め記憶装置に格納された、パスワード及びＥメールアドレスを含む被送信者に関するデータを含んだＣＳＶ型式の送信用データ as a single noun phrase.
データから１つのＰＤＦファイルを作成し "Create a single PDF file from the data (to which modifying clauses have already been appended), AND..."
And since we move on to the next step in the sequence, I think we don't have to worry about any relative clauses floating around looking for something to attach to in the rest of the paragraph.
Obviously I don't know any of the technological jargon this guy is using, but I think I've basically retained the meaning and structure.
The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - HonyakuJoshua - 2012-01-02
"The comma is the main reason to think that it's not modifying パスワード及びＥメールアドレス. Grammar isn't 100% consistent in terms of when relative clauses have a comma and when they don't, but usually a comma isn't present in this kind of situation unless there's something else coming between the verb that modifies and the noun that gets modified. So you have to put 予め記憶装置に格納された to the side for a moment and see what happens to パスワード及びＥメールアドレス. "
(I messed up the bbcode syntax)
Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for - It is going in my grammar books. I didn't think password and email adress were modified but I couldn't suss out what was. Thanks again.