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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - erlog - 2011-04-13

I'm having trouble with this sentence:

この町では冬の夜には火災防止のために当番を決めて見回りをしています。

I understand everything up to 「当番を決めて」, and I understand everything after it too. I'm understanding it in context to mean kind of "centered around police posts, areas are patrolled for fire prevention in this town during the winter." or something like that. I'm probably mixing up passive/active in my translation, but it's really just that one snippet that's bothering me.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pudding cat - 2011-04-13

当番 means duty, like "It was my turn for guard duty." So I think in this case 「当番を決めて」 means someone/some people decided to make it a duty to go on patrol to help prevent fires.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pm215 - 2011-04-13

erlog Wrote:I'm having trouble with this sentence:

この町では冬の夜には火災防止のために当番を決めて見回りをしています。

I understand everything up to 「当番を決めて」, and I understand everything after it too. I'm understanding it in context to mean kind of "centered around police posts, areas are patrolled for fire prevention in this town during the winter." or something like that.
...where have the police posts come from in this translation?
edict Wrote:当番 【とうばん】 (n,adj-no) being on duty
and 当番を決める is just drawing up a duty roster, basically. The effect is to clarify that it's being done as an organised rota rather than everybody wandering about every night.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - erlog - 2011-04-13

Ah, thanks. That makes sense. My assumption that 当番 referred to something to do with the police because of 番 was throwing me off.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2011-04-13

Another ノルウェイの森　question.

Naoko and Toru are talking, and Naoko asks if Toru thinks she could handle living in a dorm. He says it depends on one's personality. The rules are annoying, there's a bunch of worthless people who talk big, and your roomate decides to do silly radio exercises in the morning (he's joking about his actual roomate).

Then he says
「でも、そういうのはどこにいったって同じだと思えば、とりたてて気にはならない。」

Does いったって mean 行っても? (It reminds me of だって, which usually means でも or も).　　

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Asriel - 2011-04-13

Tzadeck Wrote:Does いったって mean 行っても? (It reminds me of だって, which usually means でも or も).　　
Yeah, basically. I feel like it's in the D*JG somewhere, if you want more information. But, if you have that 8555 sentence grammar deck on Anki, search for たって, and you'll find a bunch of similar examples.

あの人には話したって分かりません
"Even if I tell him that, he won't understand"

僕はその切符を高くたって買う
"I will buy the ticket even if it is expensive"

Although I'm not sure what the nuance difference is between them, if there is one. I'd wager that　〜たって can't be used too formally, whereas 〜ても can. Just a gut feeling there.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2011-04-14

Thanks! You're right, the Dictionary of Advanced Japanese Grammar lists it as the informal version of ても.

It's actually pretty funky in the negative or with adjectives. You would think that since 行っても becomes いったって, it's just the past tense form plus って. That's true with verbs, but not with negative forms or adjectives.

Actually the negative form of 行かなくても is
行かなくたって or 行かなくったって.
Likewise, 高くても becomes
高くたって or 高くったって.
You just take the く form and add たって or ったって.

With nouns it becomes だって, which is what I mentioned, so I was totally on the ball in my blind assumption, haha.

I have a feeling that I've seen this a million times in manga and didn't pick up on it.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2011-04-14

JSL describes it as the -te form, minus the "e", plus "atte".

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Es2Kay - 2011-04-17

[Image: beck052625163401.jpg]

Could someone please write the left red kanji?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pudding cat - 2011-04-17

Looks like 4 kanji

包装用品 - ほうそうようひん - packaging supplies

Edited to correct 製 to 装, thanks for pointing it out Asriel Smile

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Asriel - 2011-04-17

pudding cat Wrote:Looks like 4 kanji

包製用品 - ほうそうようひん - packaging supplies
I think it's 包装用品, rather than 包製

But how about the one after that? The one before 藤紙業？

Edit:
Found it, it's 齋
Although I've never seen it before...

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pudding cat - 2011-04-17

Asriel Wrote:
pudding cat Wrote:Looks like 4 kanji

包製用品 - ほうそうようひん - packaging supplies
I think it's 包装用品, rather than 包製
Indeed you're right, whoops!

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - nest0r - 2011-04-17

装 rather than 製, right?

Edit: n/m

So: 包装用品齋藤紙業?

I've seen that one a million times. It means... well, you'll need to learn it yourself, that's the only way.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Es2Kay - 2011-04-17

Tnx guys. I just thought it was one kanji.
about 齋 it's an old form of 斎 that was simplified during US occupation.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - nest0r - 2011-04-17

So how would you read/translate that?

ほうそうようひんさいとうしぎょう as packing supplies/saitou paper company?

Or perhaps Packing Supplies, Saito Paper Co., Ltd.?

Or perhaps would ようひん be better as store there?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Manske - 2011-04-17

How is 数 read at the end of a word like the one below?

蔵書数

Also, is 身も蓋もありませんね some kind of expression? I don't really understand.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2011-04-17

Manske Wrote:How is 数 read at the end of a word like the one below?

蔵書数
すう

Quote:Also, is 身も蓋もありませんね some kind of expression? I don't really understand.
Yes. It means that something is too straightforward or blunt and has no subtlety or taste.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Thora - 2011-04-17

Manske, a couple tips for suspected idioms:

- Try the plain form - Edict has 身も蓋もない,　for eg
- Google usually turns up dictionaries, Q&As and blogs
- If you're fine with a resource in Japanese, here's an online idiom dictionary with a bazillion entries. Here's 身も蓋もない's entry:

身も蓋もない（みもふたもない）［＝実も～］　表現が露骨過ぎて、情緒も含蓄もない。直接過ぎて、話の続けようがない。　

　例：「そう言ってしまっては、身も蓋もない」　

容器の身（本体）も蓋もなく、何もかも曝（さら）け出している状態のことで、含蓄（がんちく）も情緒（じょうちょ）もないということ。

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - louischa - 2011-04-18

Just came across # 2435: 昴 (すばる) It means the Pleiades, but wouldn't that also be the name of the Subaru car?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Asriel - 2011-04-18

Quote:Just came across # 2435: 昴 (すばる) It means the Pleiades, but wouldn't that also be the name of the Subaru car?
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=7624
Yep. And that would explain their logo

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Thora - 2011-04-18

Wikipedia Wrote:In astronomy, the Pleiades, or Seven Sisters ... is an open star cluster containing middle-aged hot B-type stars...
haha

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - mizunooto - 2011-04-19

mizunootoさんは日本語でFacebookを使っています。
mizunootoさんが「いいね！」と言っています。

...can you explain why the first one is は but the second one is が? I'm a bit behind with grammar but studying particles today!

Thanks!

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - sethg - 2011-04-19

mizunooto, just look at the important piece of info. In the first, the important part is 日本語で, but in the second, the important part is mizunootoさん.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - fakewookie - 2011-04-19

sethg Wrote:mizunooto, just look at the important piece of info. In the first, the important part is 日本語で, but in the second, the important part is mizunootoさん.
Isn't it the other way round? I think は emphasises what comes before it.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - sethg - 2011-04-19

fakewookie, no, I don't believe so.

With は、you're setting the topic, then elaborating on it. With が、what precedes が is the unusual/important bit.

So, sometimes you'll hear, 今日何もしないかな・・・次郎君は？ They're asking you to finish what comes after は, what are you doing today? But in other cases, you might hear, 今日何もしないって and then 誰が？ You don't fill in what is after が, but instead, what comes before it. 誰が今日何もしてないって言ったのか？