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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - jettyke - 2011-03-24

木村さんたちの方が早くいなくなっちゃうような気もするけど

what does it mean?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - nadiatims - 2011-03-24

something like:
I have a feeling Kimura-san and co will be gone earlier (than the other group).

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Bokusenou - 2011-03-26

I'm learning N1 compound verbs now, and I'm stuck on one thing, what's the difference in usage between the verb endings ～そびれる and ～そこなう/そこねる? They both seem to be about "missing the chance to [verb]"

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Es2Kay - 2011-03-30

新制度は成功だと分かった。

What does だと mean?
Unexpected result?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - sethg - 2011-03-30

Es2Kay,

I understood that the new system was a success.

The だと here is just like in 〜だと思う or 〜だと決める

Basically, a statement is made: 新制度は成功だ (The new system is a success.)

The と quotes it, and then 分かった refers to what was just quoted.

So, it's like this: ["The new system is a success" was understood.]

The だ is just because 成功 is a noun. If you had an 〜い adjective or a verb, you wouldn't need a だ there. For example:

マイクはちゃらいとわかった。

英語を勉強してると気づいた。

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Javizy - 2011-03-31

Bokusenou Wrote:I'm learning N1 compound verbs now, and I'm stuck on one thing, what's the difference in usage between the verb endings ～そびれる and ～そこなう/そこねる? They both seem to be about "missing the chance to [verb]"
According to 大辞林, ～そびれる means to miss out on an opportunity to do something, whereas ～そこなう means to make a failure of something. There are a couple of verbs in JDIC which illustrate the difference.

言いそびれる to miss an opportunity to tell someone something
言い損なう to make a slip of the tongue

～そこなう can also be used to mean もう少しで, ～そうになった, e.g. 死にそこなうところだった.

Do you have a list of these verbs? I don't think I saw そびれる in the ADIJG appendix.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FooSoft - 2011-04-02

Any ideas what's going on in these two guys:

しかしですね、能力があっても、残念ながらそれだけでは十分じゃないんです。そして考えようによっては、十分ではない優れた能力を持つってことは、まったく何も持たないよりかえって危険かもしれません。

Is this like "if you think about it" or maybe "by thinking about it" where によって is expressing a means to do something? Looks strange with volitional.

もちろんのこと、あなたがそれを受け入れる必要はありません。それは我々の信仰であって、あなたの信仰ではありません。しかし今日、信仰するしないを超えて、おそらくあなたは特別なものごとを目になさるはずです。

Does this just mean "to believe or not to believe"?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pm215 - 2011-04-02

FooSoft Wrote:しかしですね、能力があっても、残念ながらそれだけでは十分じゃないんです。そして考えようによっては、十分ではない優れた能力を持つってことは、まったく何も持たないよりかえって危険かもしれません。

Is this like "if you think about it" or maybe "by thinking about it" where によって is expressing a means to do something? Looks strange with volitional.
This is the "depending on" によって, and I don't think that's the volitional. GG says you can also write it 考え様, and it means 考え方. GG also gives as a gloss for the whole phrase 考えようによっては "in a sense; in a way; according to how one looks at things".
Quote:もちろんのこと、あなたがそれを受け入れる必要はありません。それは我々の信仰であって、あなたの信仰ではありません。しかし今日、信仰するしないを超えて、おそらくあなたは特別なものごとを目になさるはずです。

Does this just mean "to believe or not to believe"?
Now there's a grammar point that's a pig to look up. Google suggests that Xするしないを超えて probably means something like "regardless of whether you X or not". For example
Quote:聞こえる聞こえないを超えて人形劇を楽しんでほしいと公演を続ける「デフパペットシアターひとみ」がまもなく活動３０年を迎える。
about a show that's part of NHK's programming for the deaf community.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Nagareboshi - 2011-04-03

日本語の美しさ、　素晴らしさに　段々引き込まれてきましたね！

As i see it this could mean one of the following: "The japanese language is beautiful, and that i will be gradually drawn into it. Or: "The beauty of the Japanese language, i will gradually be drawn into it." Or: "The Japanese language is beautiful, and that i should gradually incorporate it (in my writing)."

Maybe someone can help me out, and give me a better, more accurate translation? I would really be thankful for it. Smile

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - FooSoft - 2011-04-03

@pm215
Thanks! That helps a lot Smile

@nagareboshi
I would translate it as follows:
[I've] gradually come to be drawn into the beauty and splendor of the Japanese language!

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Bokusenou - 2011-04-03

Javizy Wrote:
Bokusenou Wrote:I'm learning N1 compound verbs now, and I'm stuck on one thing, what's the difference in usage between the verb endings ～そびれる and ～そこなう/そこねる? They both seem to be about "missing the chance to [verb]"
According to 大辞林, ～そびれる means to miss out on an opportunity to do something, whereas ～そこなう means to make a failure of something. There are a couple of verbs in JDIC which illustrate the difference.

言いそびれる to miss an opportunity to tell someone something
言い損なう to make a slip of the tongue

～そこなう can also be used to mean もう少しで, ～そうになった, e.g. 死にそこなうところだった.

Do you have a list of these verbs? I don't think I saw そびれる in the ADIJG appendix.
Thanks for replying! So then, a sentence from my book, 朝寝坊したので、朝ごはんを食べそこねてしまった。　is focusing on the person's failure to eat breakfast, rather than the missed chance to eat it, ah, it makes sense now!

Sure, the sentences my book (日本語能力試験N1語彙対策標準テキスト) has for そびれる are:

1. 林君と喧嘩別れしたまま、本当の気持ちを伝えそびれている。
２　責められると思い、自分のミスを上司に報告しそびれいてる。　
３　昨夜の火事で逃げそびれた老人が二人もいたそうだ。

I think it can be attached to most verbs though, as I've heard things like 返しそびれる and 書きそびれる in anime/podcasts and such.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2011-04-03

Nagareboshi Wrote:日本語の美しさ、　素晴らしさに　段々引き込まれてきましたね！

As i see it this could mean one of the following: "The japanese language is beautiful, and that i will be gradually drawn into it. Or: "The beauty of the Japanese language, i will gradually be drawn into it." Or: "The Japanese language is beautiful, and that i should gradually incorporate it (in my writing)."
FooSoft's translation is good, I just wanted to make a few additional statements:

First, 日本語の美しさ cannot mean "The Japanese language is beautiful" because that's just a noun, not a predicate. It can only mean "The beauty of the Japanese language" and you have to look for the predicate later in the sentence. (If that were the entire sentence, there would be an understood だ and it would mean "[It is/there is] the beauty of the Japanese language".)

Second, 引き込まれる is passive, so that means the doer of the underlying action will be marked by に (in this case, because it is a direct passive). If someone uses a passive verb, it will (virtually) never mean that the speaker is the one doing the action (in other words, it can't mean "I will gradually incorporate it")

Finally, because きました is perfective, this cannot mean "I will...", it has to describe something that is completed.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Nagareboshi - 2011-04-03

FooSoft Wrote:@nagareboshi
I would translate it as follows:
[I've] gradually come to be drawn into the beauty and splendor of the Japanese language!
Thank you!

yudantaiteki Wrote:
Nagareboshi Wrote:日本語の美しさ、　素晴らしさに　段々引き込まれてきましたね！

As i see it this could mean one of the following: "The japanese language is beautiful, and that i will be gradually drawn into it. Or: "The beauty of the Japanese language, i will gradually be drawn into it." Or: "The Japanese language is beautiful, and that i should gradually incorporate it (in my writing)."
FooSoft's translation is good, I just wanted to make a few additional statements:

First, 日本語の美しさ cannot mean "The Japanese language is beautiful" because that's just a noun, not a predicate. It can only mean "The beauty of the Japanese language" and you have to look for the predicate later in the sentence. (If that were the entire sentence, there would be an understood だ and it would mean "[It is/there is] the beauty of the Japanese language".)

Second, 引き込まれる is passive, so that means the doer of the underlying action will be marked by に (in this case, because it is a direct passive). If someone uses a passive verb, it will (virtually) never mean that the speaker is the one doing the action (in other words, it can't mean "I will gradually incorporate it")

Finally, because きました is perfective, this cannot mean "I will...", it has to describe something that is completed.
Thank you for your explanation! Well yes, i didn't pay attention to きました, i was just trying to make sense of it. And this I in my translation is there, because i thought, that the comment has something to do with me. Unfortunately this was also the only sentence. There was nothing preceding or following it, that would give a clue, what this sentence means.

How would you translate this sentence? Maybe it helps when i tell you that it is an older person who left this comment. Would this make any difference when it comes to translating it? Style / choice of words / meaning?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - yudantaiteki - 2011-04-03

I think FooSoft's translation is fine, although the subject might not be "I"; he could be talking about people in general who study Japanese, or if this was in response to a blog post or something it might be referring to the post writer.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - fakewookie - 2011-04-03

Nagareboshi Wrote:How would you translate this sentence? Maybe it helps when i tell you that it is an older person who left this comment. Would this make any difference when it comes to translating it? Style / choice of words / meaning?
Haha, I knew it! This sounds to me like something an old person has said to someone who's described how much they love learning Japanese. So I think the subject is "you", not "I".

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pm215 - 2011-04-03

Nagareboshi Wrote:Thank you for your explanation! Well yes, i didn't pay attention to きました, i was just trying to make sense of it.
...but you can't make sense of it unless you pay attention to things like that :-)
Quote:And this I in my translation is there, because i thought, that the comment has something to do with me.
I think yudantaiteki's point is not that "I" is a wrong thing, but that "I will" and "I [do some action]" are wrong guesses.
Quote:Unfortunately this was also the only sentence. There was nothing preceding or following it, that would give a clue, what this sentence means.
There's always context, unless you mean that somebody just walked up to you in the street, said this and then vanished :-) In particular, if it's somebody commenting on a post that you made, then the "[I've]" in FooSoft's translation is probably "[You've]".

However, in this case the sentence isn't in fact particularly ambiguous beyond the usual dropped-subject, although it is relatively high on grammar and low on vocabulary. Sentences like this come along every so often to test whether you really knew a grammar point as well as you thought you did :-)

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Nagareboshi - 2011-04-04

@fakewookie, yes, i was writing something about the beauty of the Japanese language. So you were really very close with your assumption. Smile

@pm215 you are right. I will definitely pay more attention to this from now on. Thank you for pointing it out. Smile

So, thanks again for your help, FooSoft, yudantaiteki and pm215, i really appreciate it!

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Colof Of Justice - 2011-04-05

What's the 漢字 for かける(meaning to wear something on your face, for example 眼鏡)?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Tzadeck - 2011-04-05

メガネを掛ける。

Actually it's written in ひらがな about as often as it's written in 漢字. And there might be other kanji you can use, I'm not sure. かける has a lot of different kanji, but I know that 掛ける is the one most often used for glasses.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - kitakitsune - 2011-04-05

Colof Of Justice Wrote:What's the 漢字 for かける(meaning to wear something on your face, for example 眼鏡)?
Glasses are always かける (掛ける).

A mask or a hat is かぶる (被る) or つける (着ける).

Wearing makeup is する (化粧する.




Yea, confusing...

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pm215 - 2011-04-05

This is a question about a sentence from ゼロの焦点 (a crime novel); it's describing a receptionist who the main character has just seen:
Quote:その女は受付にすわってはいるが、三十近い年齢ごろに思えた。痩せてはいたが、目のくりくりした、ちょっとかわいい感じのする顔だった。
(年齢 is read とし here).

Now I'm used to the "てはいる" pattern coming up in sentences like:
Quote:春めいてはいるけど. まだ春ではない
Quote:一生懸命やってはいるんですが. どうも今一ピンと来ない
as a sort of emphasis thing (it is springlike, but it's not spring yet; I _am_ trying my best but I just can't seem to get it). But in the quote above, the bit in the second half of the sentence doesn't really seem to follow on from the first: "She *was* sat behind the reception desk, but she looked to be about thirty." ??

Any suggestions?

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - Asriel - 2011-04-05

The only thing I can think of is that the general expectation is that receptionists are in their early/mid 20's, so seeing one about 30 is a little rare.

Quote:見た目が３０歳過ぎの受付って見かけるのが少ない（事務員とかはありますが）のですが、雇っている会社側で年齢制限をもうけているのでしょうか？
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1129480301

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - fakewookie - 2011-04-05

My answer to that would be that it seems that usage of が doesn't imply related sentences (first case), nor contradictory sentences (second case).

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pm215 - 2011-04-05

fakewookie Wrote:My answer to that would be that it seems that usage of が doesn't imply related sentences (first case), nor contradictory sentences (second case).
I agree that が doesn't always mean "but"; the thing that to me suggests that there ought to be a 'but...' following is the てはいる bit.

Maybe Asriel's right and it's just a slight clash of cultural expectations.

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread - pudding cat - 2011-04-05

pm215 Wrote:
fakewookie Wrote:My answer to that would be that it seems that usage of が doesn't imply related sentences (first case), nor contradictory sentences (second case).
I agree that が doesn't always mean "but"; the thing that to me suggests that there ought to be a 'but...' following is the てはいる bit.

Maybe Asriel's right and it's just a slight clash of cultural expectations.
I agree with Asriel and pm215 as てはいる shows that something is not as you expected.

@pm215 I've seen the film and I really enjoyed it. Is the book good?