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How To Learn Compounds - stevesayskanpai - 2009-06-07
I appreciate this may sound like a silly question, but having been studying RtK for so long I'm used to gathering elements, picturing a kanji in my mind and connecting it to a specific English keyword.
Now I've moved onto Kanji Odyssey, and am having trouble with several compounds that fall out of the order of learning. Here are two examples-
日本は外国からたくさん材木を輸入している。
今日の金の価格は１グラム１２００円だ。
In both cases I'm having real trouble remembering the pronunciation of 材木 and 価格. Whats the best way to learn "out of order" kanji like this do you think? Should I write out the kanji several times, saying the pronunciation? Should I picture the kanji in my mind and repeat the pronunciation, or should I link the pronunciation with the English meaning as well as the kanji?
Thanks!
How To Learn Compounds - blackmacros - 2009-06-07
I was having trouble too, initially, trying to remember all the new kanji that came up (other than the target kanji being learned).
What I did was limit cards to one new vocabulary item. If a sentence had more than one new item I would split it up into multiple cards, and I would highlight the compound I needed to learn. Then, I would only worry about that single item when reviewing.
For example one sentence becomes...
日本は外国からたくさん材木を輸入している。
日本は外国からたくさん材木を輸入している。
日本は外国からたくさん材木を輸入している。
日本は外国からたくさん材木を輸入している。
4 cards, with each one containing only one new item. (the bolded compound)
This might sound like its generating a lot more work, but in reality I found it made things much easier. Firstly, you only worry about trying to remember the reading for one item. That makes deciding whether you failed or passed much easier. Secondly, because you split it up, the kanji that are harder to remember get reviewed more often; just like it should be. Finally, if you do this it *will* generate a lot more cards initially. But it soons starts to pay off. I'm up to kanji 145, and I've noticed that in the last 15 or so I've dropped back to only needing 1 or 2 cards max per sentence. A lot of the compounds you encounter get reused a lot in future sentences.
How To Learn Compounds - Musashi - 2009-06-07
Come to think of it I never really had trouble learning compounds cus I started with learning compounds right from the start. No single single kanji, but then again, I was studying in an all Chinese class and they have the super advantage of not having to learn like 95%ぐらい of the kanji, 羨ましい. Though me as a foreigner sometimes did had to learn 2 or more characters at the same time in a compound, and I would have difficulty reading the same characters in a different compounds, although there are some general hints where you can figure out the reading, you still have to learn it before yoou know you're 100% sure of the reading.
I guess you just have to associate that specific reading for that specific compound. Since for me each compound was new, I automatically you learn only that reading for that compound, but then you see it in a different compound and suddenly it's another new reading. Kinda reversed from learning kanji first and then the compounds. I tried learning single kanji with all it's reading etc. but in turn I find that difficult. Since most of the words are made out of compounds would it be better to learn compounds right from the start かなぁ〜
How To Learn Compounds - lanval - 2009-06-07
*having the same problem*
blackmacros, what your saying is useful but not really the question he asked ^^°
funny, the first sentence you mention troubles me too.
Its not that hard to remember the もく because its 木造 もくぞう in the sentence before. Otherwise, just listen to it and then write it, Id say.
How To Learn Compounds - Squintox - 2009-06-07
Front:
材木
Back:
ざいもく
That is all. You can make it pretty and design the card every week or two or four with pretty colours and fonts and stuff.
How To Learn Compounds - FutureBlues - 2009-06-07
I find that when particular compounds give me trouble, especially unfocused compounds (ie. compounds that you aren't specifically testing in a given instance) I find that making a separate card for that compound and then looking it up in a dictionary and adding a few examples of simple sentences with that odd compound in it help me a lot. I try to go 5 to 1. So for every one word that I can't seem to remember, I try and make 5 related cards, sentences, definitions, etc. that utilize that compound.
After a week or two they get drilled into you just the same.
It helps too to try and train your mind for singular readings in these instances. Try to remember one half of the reading every time you come across one of these difficult compounds, because ultimately, the point of memorizing compounds is to memorize both a word and (typically) two seperate sound parts so that you can read different compounds utilizing those kanji in the future. So with 材木 try hard to memorize the right or left side of it every time you see it. Look at 木 and think something-もく every time you run into until you can remember that part without any trouble, then go to the other side.
In Kanji Odyssey's case, those odd compounds usually pop up a few days later with their own proper sentences, so it might be best to just continue working and failing (or passing) the cards containing them until you make it to the related kanji.
How To Learn Compounds - cloudstrife543 - 2009-06-07
Just keep failing them until you get it. That's what I do.
How To Learn Compounds - saru_yo - 2009-06-07
Mhh, I had kind of the same problem, recently I began changing my cards to look like this :
Front:
Sentence with new word written in hiragana
eg.: あなたのいとはよく分かりました。
Answer:
Sentence with full kanji:
あなたの意図はよく分かりました。
+ Explantion of the new word if necessary.
works well so far, but I'm still testing :]
How To Learn Compounds - harhol - 2009-06-07
Squintox Wrote:...pretty colours and fonts and stuff.This is the key. Just have one highlighted part in each sentence and focus on that.
How To Learn Compounds - Tobberoth - 2009-06-07
saru_yo Wrote:Mhh, I had kind of the same problem, recently I began changing my cards to look like this :Well.. it's hardly odd that you remember the reading if it's supplied on the question side...
Front:
Sentence with new word written in hiragana
eg.: あなたのいとはよく分かりました。
Answer:
Sentence with full kanji:
あなたの意図はよく分かりました。
+ Explantion of the new word if necessary.
works well so far, but I'm still testing :]
How To Learn Compounds - Nii87 - 2009-06-07
But wouldn't have a kana-only question side help your listening skills as well, since people speak in kana sounds, not kanji? That's definitely a plus.
How To Learn Compounds - stevesayskanpai - 2009-06-07
My question is about recognition, not production. I've chosen to just do recognition on KO2001 to begin with in order to speed through it. I plan to add production cards in the future.
Thanks for all your advice! I think just failing them until I remember is the only thing you can really do ultimately. Its not like example sentences are really necessary for some things, such as 材木 - it's timber, a very basic and undestandable concept.
Pretty fonts and colours are definitely the way to go though.
Cheers!
How To Learn Compounds - vosmiura - 2009-06-07
I don't have any special tricks. Just try to remember all of the words, and if you forget any, fail the card. With almost anything that seems hard at first, in a week or two later you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
Having duplicate cards with focus may help, but at the cost of having a lot more cards to review, which may make you want to rush through your review. I recommend reading the whole sentence, to help internalize the grammar and relationships between words.
Edit: Ok, perhaps one trick. For words that I have a hard time linking a sound to even after a number of reviews, I think of the word while focusing on the hiragana; trace the shape of the first one or more hiragana for that word in your mind or on paper while thinking about the word. This association of not only sound, but also shape can help to memorize some words.
How To Learn Compounds - chochajin - 2009-06-07
I had kind of the same problem after finishing RTK1 last year.
I tried KO 2001 next, but it was too hard to remember the readings of all the different compounds plus there meaning at the same time. Gave me headaches.
I put KO aside and went back to my RTK deck and started to study the on-yomi for all the RTK1 kanji first.
Took me quite a while, but it was fun (I used something similar to the "movie method").
Then, I went back to do KO 2001 and now it's fairly easy. I finished book one almost already and it took me only about 2 weeks (I'm working full-time btw.).
Maybe you should give on-yomi a try?
How To Learn Compounds - stevesayskanpai - 2009-06-07
I think KO2001 makes more sense for me. I've got a background in Japanese from my 2 years spent there, as well as passing the first 2 JLPTs, so the step from RtK to "real" Japanese learning isn't as difficult as it might be for someone with no background in Japanese study.
I'm sure I'll encounter more compounds I don't understand as I go along, but I should be able to recognise a fair number to begin with. I'll carry on like this until autumn, when I need to hone in on my specific goal of JLPT2 (december).
How To Learn Compounds - chochajin - 2009-06-07
Actually I'm the same.
I studied Japanese for about 2 years at university and am now living in Japan (my current level if is between 3kyuu and 2kyuu, I guess).
That's why KO is now fairly easy for me. Nevertheless I always had problems remembering the on-yomi of kanji compounds that's why I chose to learn those and for ME it really worked
Good luck! ^-^