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+--- Thread: Questions before I buy... (/thread-323.html)
Questions before I buy... - irishdave - 2007-01-02
Hi guys,
First of all, I'd really like to say how much I admire how you guys all help each other out--it's very inspiring and I'm loving learning Japanese at the moment partially due to the great community there is for it on the net at the moment.
Anyways, I finished Heisig's "Remembering The Kana" double book a while ago and found it amazing--I really flew through it and I'm very comfortable with reading and writing Kana now. So naturally, Kanji's the next step and after doing so well with Heisig's Kana book, I'm immediately drawn to his book for Kanji.
However, I've read that RTK1 only actually gives one translation for each kanji. For example, a kanji might mean about 5 different things but RTK1 only tells you one of these. Am I right? If so, what happens when you read a particular kanji somewhere and in that situation, it's actually referring to one of the meanings that RTK1 didn't mention!? Wouldn't this make learning all these meanings only useful if you're lucky enough to be reading it in the right context?
Also, part of the reason I loved Remembering The Kana was the link Heisig gave between the sound of the character and how it related to the image he instructed you to associate that character with. Am I right in thinking that with RTK1, you're just learning stories that remind you of the structure of each kanji? If that's the case, how do I then remember that that particular story relates to the actual *meaning* of the kanji? In other words, it seems that the method which I loved in "Remembering The Kana" is actually a lot different that RTK1.
Thanks for taking time to read this. I'm very tempted to buy this book but it's quite expensive and I'd like to make completely sure that it will be right for me.
Happy new year!
Dave
Questions before I buy... - raulir - 2007-01-02
I haven't seen the kana book, so I can't say for sure, but it sounds quite different indeed. As kanas only represent sounds it shouldn't be too surprising, though. Also, Heisig doesn't give stories for most of the book in RTK 1, you have to make them yourself or take ones people have written here (if you browse them a bit you'll see what they're like).
What RTK 1 gives is e.g. "explanation - 釈 - Animal tracks ... shakuhachi", where left side of 釈 is "animal tracks" and right side (i.e. 尺) is shakuhachi (a kind of flute), meanings Heisig has assigned (semi-)arbitrarily to the parts, and "explanation" is the keyword (which is supposed to stand for one meaning of the kanji, but they are not translations as such). Then you make a story with these, and when you see the word "explanation", you can get words "animal tracks" and "shakuhachi" back by using the story, and having those two words you can just write the corresponding parts to form 釈. The story should of course incorporate all the elements and the keyword.
Many (most?) kanjis indeed have many meanings, though they are often related. RTK 1 keywords could've been picked better, but they're not horrible either. In any case, you won't be able to read properly without studying words, most of which are formed by multiple kanjis, so you will learn different meanings when studying them. Knowing kanjis makes words easier to learn and understand, and without knowing kanjis you won't be able to read many texts at all even if you do know the words. Oh, and you need to learn readings for the kanjis too, they are not given in RTK 1.
Questions before I buy... - mbagsh55 - 2007-01-02
Hi Dave,
A Happy New Year to you as well.
I think the best thing to do would be to review the freely available sample (PDF format) and see it you agree with the approach Heisig used in RTK and if you find learning the first 200 characters matches your study style:
http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/miscPublications/pdf/RK4/RK4-00.pdf
In my case I discovered this site at just the right time for me (about 500 characters) since I started have difficulties with confused meanings and stories at that stage. This website completely resolves these difficulties, and I am indepted to Fabrice for sharing this labour of love.
In the interest of honesty I should also explain that I currently have the book on loan from the local library rather than a purchased copy. I won't go into the story related to me loaning a copy to someone, but will state in my opinion the book is worth purchasing (but probably only once :/ )
Regards,
Marcus
Questions before I buy... - aircawn - 2007-01-03
Yeah, mbagsh55's link is the best we could offer really. My own suggestion is to read carefully his Introduction to the book, it explains his reasoning in why he teaches the kanji in this way and gives some very good advice to remember when working through it.
The except only shows you part one though, which stories are supplied for you to remember. The majority of it only gives you the primitives (those in italics) and it's left to yourself to invent the story. Keep that in mind.
Questions before I buy... - CharleyGarrett - 2007-01-03
Concerning the fact that a single keyword is supplied for a kanji that may have multiple meanings---it is also true that English words can have mutliple meanings. It is also true that when learning to speak english, a student may be introduced to one meaning first, and then have to learn other definitions to what appears to be the same word later, perhaps even different pronunciations of the "same" word. (like live and live). It really isn't so weird to only learn one meaning at first, and which meaning you pick as the first one is (sometimes) arbitrary....the first one you stumble across, random chance.
Questions before I buy... - brose - 2007-01-03
One point to keep in mind is that hardly any foreigners learn to write 2000 kanji without using RTK, but a lot have been able to do it using the book. It's about the only way to go if you really want to learn to write a lot of Kanji.
Questions before I buy... - mbagsh55 - 2007-01-03
brose Wrote:One point to keep in mind is that hardly any foreigners learn to write 2000 kanji without using RTK, but a lot have been able to do it using the book. It's about the only way to go if you really want to learn to write a lot of Kanji.Hi Brose,
Without wishing to pick fights here, I know of more foreigners who while I was working in Japan learnt to read and right 2000 characters and passed level-1 JLPT using rote-learning than those who used Heisig's method.
I believe this has as much to do with the lack of practical application while living in Japan of following RTK, and greater support for the rote-learning approach by language schools in Japan.
Regards,
Marcus
Questions before I buy... - Suzuru - 2007-01-05
I have gotten heisig method flash cards and they are really helpfull because they do have all the meanings listed, with Main heisig one in bold and "on" and "kun" readings in kana, which is really awesome.
Though it helps that I already know a lot of words readings because of prior interests.
Questions before I buy... - dingomick - 2007-03-11
Read Hesig's explanation in the free pdf and then try the first couple hundred. It'll only take a couple days. You'll be a convert.
Also, as others have said, this is the foundation to learning. One meaning per kanji is plenty, especially considering that you're gaining more kanji, more quickly, and more completely, than any other method. I know people that know 2000 kanji, but it took them years of study (as opposed to my 8 weeks) and they struggle to reproduce and recgonize many. I know of no better method for adult English speakers to quickly learn, and retain, massive numbers of kanji.