+- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com)
+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The Japanese language (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-10.html)
+--- Thread: Ask JLPT questions (/thread-3211.html)
Ask JLPT questions - skinnyneo - 2009-06-03
As JLPT is about 30 days away I figured lots of people are probably studying hard. However I think that we all run into road block every now and then so maybe this would be a good place to post quick questions or discuss things we aren't clear on. I'll start off...
So I understand the まい grammar point (JLPT 2) but I can't seem to make heads or tails of these two sentences:
彼は何も言うまいと思っているらしい。
小さな地震が続いている。大きな地震がおこるのではあるまい。
For the first one is it like "It seems like he probably won't say anything...?" And for the 2nd "The small earthquakes are continuing..." then what does the 2nd part mean?
Ask JLPT questions - vosmiura - 2009-06-03
May be wrong but here's my crack at it.
彼は何も言うまいと思っているらしい。 It looks like he's thinking of not saying anything.
大きな地震がおこるのではあるまい。 A large earthquake probably won't occur. (???)
But I'm not sure about the 2nd. Shouldn't it be 大きな地震がおこるのではあるまいか。? Then it would be like "A large earthquake might occur".
Ask JLPT questions - magamo - 2009-06-04
skinnyneo Wrote:As JLPT is about 30 days away I figured lots of people are probably studying hard. However I think that we all run into road block every now and then so maybe this would be a good place to post quick questions or discuss things we aren't clear on. I'll start off...Where did you get the second sentence? I guess it should read "おこるのではあるまいか。" (か is added at the end of the sentence). If that's the case, it means "I'm afraid that a large earthquake might occur."
So I understand the まい grammar point (JLPT 2) but I can't seem to make heads or tails of these two sentences:
彼は何も言うまいと思っているらしい。
小さな地震が続いている。大きな地震がおこるのではあるまい。
For the first one is it like "It seems like he probably won't say anything...?" And for the 2nd "The small earthquakes are continuing..." then what does the 2nd part mean?
As you can see in a J-J dictionary for native speakers, まい has a lot of meanings. I'm not sure which meanings and usages you need to learn to pass JLPT2, so I'll only explain the two まいs in your examples.
The まい in the first example is sort of "not + determination" and means "won't" or "will never," so "I won't say anything." = 何も言うまい. For example,
二度と同じ過ちは繰り返すまい (にどとおなじあやまちはくりかえすまい)
"I'll never make the same mistake again."
Sometimes 何も言うまい can be more like "You know, it's better to say nothing..." or "..., but you get the picture." I'm pretty sure it's beyond JLPT level, though. Let me know if you want an example sentence for this usage.
The second usage (assuming it's まいか) is a little tricky. Usually まい is sort of "highly unlikely" and means "I don't think X," "I guess X isn't the case," "I doubt X," "It's not like X," etc. as in
俺うざかったかもしれないけど、別にあいつらにまた会うわけでもあるまい
"I may have pissed them off, but I don't think I'll see them again."
But if you add か to this まい, it becomes more like "I don't think X..., wait. Really? Am I right? Hm... X shouldn't happen (or I don't want X, etc.), but come to think of it, it could." So 大きな地震がおこるのではあるまいか is like "I'm afraid that a large earthquake might happen." If か isn't there and the まい means still "highly unlikely," then the sentence should read:
小さな地震が続いてはいるが、大きな地震がおこるというわけでもあるまい。
"Sure, the small earthquakes are continuing. But I don't think a large earthquake would occur."
Ask JLPT questions - skinnyneo - 2009-06-04
Wow! Thank you both! And your both right, after checking the 2nd sentence should end in まいか. Also thank you magamo for such a through explanation! I'm pretty sure that you covered the meanings that are needed for JLPT 2, as well as shedding a lot of light on the usage in general. If you don't mind me asking is the の that is after 起こる is that nominalizing the previous statement? And if so then is ではある just the same as である?
Ask JLPT questions - magamo - 2009-06-04
skinnyneo Wrote:Wow! Thank you both! And your both right, after checking the 2nd sentence should end in まいか. Also thank you magamo for such a through explanation! I'm pretty sure that you covered the meanings that are needed for JLPT 2, as well as shedding a lot of light on the usage in general. If you don't mind me asking is the の that is after 起こる is that nominalizing the previous statement? And if so then is ではある just the same as である?I suck at Japanese grammar, so I could be wrong, but my gut tells me it's の+では, i.e.,
地震が 起こる の では あるまい か。
I don't know if a nominalizer is a word, but this の does turn a clause into a grammatical noun.
That said, I think the whole concept of "nominalize" is kind of wrong. It's just the Japanese language has grammatically "correct" ways of speaking run-on sentences. I don't see 地震が起こる as a noun clause when I say it. I just say it thinking it's a sentence and then put の to glide into the next thought, which is ではあるまいか (it might occur).
As for である, I guess ではあるまい isn't である + まい. I've never learned this kind of grammar, but my understanding is that あるまい is kind of a set phrase that often follows では or でも.
あるまいか is also kind of an idiom, and you can't use でも before あるまいか. I don't know why you can't use でも here.
Edit: I'm not a teacher or anything. So take it with a grain of salt.
Ask JLPT questions - skinnyneo - 2009-06-04
I think I see what your saying. Don't worry about not being a teacher or professionally trained. I think your explanations are wayyy better as langauges are supposed to be about feelings and expressing yourself, not really about tests and cramming. Unfortunately I need food to live and money to get the food, and passing a test to get the money...
Do you mind if I ask you another one?
予定どおり終わるように計画を立ててやってください。
I am getting confused by the last part, 立ててやって下さい, and what exactly the 終わるように is doing in there? I was translating it as something like "Do the project to the end according to the plan." Am I close? Thanks for any help again!
Ask JLPT questions - vosmiura - 2009-06-04
"Please make a plan to make sure things finish as scheduled."
計画を立てる = make a plan
予定どおり = as scheduled, so 予定どおり終わる = to finish as scheduled.
Ask JLPT questions - magamo - 2009-06-04
skinnyneo Wrote:I think I see what your saying. Don't worry about not being a teacher or professionally trained. I think your explanations are wayyy better as langauges are supposed to be about feelings and expressing yourself, not really about tests and cramming. Unfortunately I need food to live and money to get the food, and passing a test to get the money...It roughly means "Please make a plan so they can finish it in time."
Do you mind if I ask you another one?
予定どおり終わるように計画を立ててやってください。
I am getting confused by the last part, 立ててやって下さい, and what exactly the 終わるように is doing in there? I was translating it as something like "Do the project to the end according to the plan." Am I close? Thanks for any help again!
ように here is pretty much the same as "so that," "such that" or "in order to" in English. If the second clause was 計画を変えた, instead of 計画を立ててやってください, then it would be:
予定どおり終わるように計画を変えた
We changed our plan to finish it in time.
An example of this ように from my J-E dictionary is:
彼女が眠れるように静かにしていた。
We kept quiet so that she could sleep.
About 立ててやって下さい, it's a colloquial form of 立ててあげて下さい, i.e., やって = あげて + informal sense. The difference between 立てて下さい and 立ててやってください (or あげて) is that the latter implies that the speaker is asking you to make a plan for someone else while the former can mean you do it either for your own benefit or for someone else. That's why I translated your sentence as "...they can finish it in time."
Things get trickier when you use the informal form of する (to do), i.e., やる in place of 立てる. In this case, you might want to say やってあげて下さい, not やってやって下さい, to avoid repeating the same sound. The latter sentence totally makes sense, but it sounds less sophisticated. I'm not sure if this grammar is banned in JLPT, though.
I don't know if you should learn nuances to pass JLPT, but あげる and やる can sound patronizing. So you might want to avoid the words, say, when you want to help others. For example, 手伝いましょうか？ (Do you need some help?) sounds politer than 手伝ってあげましょうか？
Good luck with your exam!
Ask JLPT questions - skinnyneo - 2009-06-08
Sorry I never replied to this magamo, but thank you again for a great explanation. I actually enjoy learning more about the nuances of the grammar as it helps it to stick in my head better plus JLPT is just a test that I will take (hopefully) once. Where as I hope Japanese will be around in my life for much much longer.
I had always wondered about offering help with あげる as just compared to ましょう. I mean in English of course I think Do you need some help sounds politer then "Shall I give you some help," but I was not sure if that nuance carried over into Japanese or not. Now I know! Thank you again! Of course I'll probably be back with more questions later.
Ask JLPT questions - skinnyneo - 2009-06-25
Hehe, got another Q! Here is the sentence:
値段が高いほど品物がいいとは限らない。
The grammar point here is ほど which I dont really have a problem with, but I am not sure how 限らない works into this. Is it something like "As the price gets more expensive the quality of a product gets better is not limited..."??? Thanks for any help!
Ask JLPT questions - mr_hans_moleman - 2009-06-25
とは限らない
Is not limited to
So in total:
A product that is expensive is not necessarily good.