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Surprised at some of the content at 2ch - danieldesu - 2009-05-10
I've been browsing 2ch lately, and I just happened across some threads about Japanese people's opinion about America, and I was completely surprised at the kinds of things they post. About 1 out of every 3 posts mentions racism, and another 1 out of 10 literally contains the phrase "撃ち殺された" (shot and killed) to describe the average life of a person living in America. Now, don't get me wrong, the collection of posts at 2ch cannot possibly represent the actual feelings of Japanese citizens as usually the worst things are posted and amplified on the internet. However, are these things really what defines America?
The other thing is that pretty much all the posts that talk about racism say how 白人 always do this, or Mexicans always do such-and-such, 黒人 are always like this or that, イタリア人 always cause trouble, etc. Not a single person seems to realize that all of these comments are using stereotypes and racial discrimination... I understand that most people in Japan never really experience the kind of diversity that America has, so they really don't know what they themselves would be like, but there are no comments that say 日本人 always act like this-or-that (so I get the feeling that they really don't realize that they are discriminating). The thing that gives me a little hope is that every 1 in 50 posts or so, someone comes along and says "you guys are exaggerating, America is just a normal country."
Anyway, I don't really care to have a huge discussion or anything as racial discrimination is something that literally NEVER crosses my mind in my daily life in America (in 南部, no less!!! - 1 out of 30 posts), so I was just surprised to see this kind of sentiment and also the hypocrisy which irritated me a little.
Surprised at some of the content at 2ch - Burritolingus - 2009-05-10
That's anonymous message boards for ya, really.
Having spent far too much time on a particular few in the past, myself, I know all too well the kinds of social taboo that's discussed quite casually in a typical anonymous board. Quite often, things such as racism, misogyny, sexism and downright sadism and schadenfreude (poking fun at the suffering of others) are not only considered normal there, but embraced and sometimes even encouraged.
Of course, if names were attached to each message, do you think these people would behave the way they do in boards such as 2ch? Most likely not, much less in real life, especially in a highly conformist country such as Japan. Think of it as repressed venting more than anything, and also consider how many general undesirable people post on those boards...
At any rate, stereotype is stereotype - a result of fear and ignorance - and really isn't worth worrying over too much, in my opinion. The only thing worse than stereotype, of course, are those few who match the stereotypes to the letter... eww.
Surprised at some of the content at 2ch - markal - 2009-05-10
I know it's a generalization, but stereotypes about non-Japanese are bandied about very casually in the media here (Japan) and the "scary foreigner" is a pretty well-established one. It really seems that many average people who have never been out of Japan see the world outside Japan as dangerous, with America being a place you should expect to be robbed on the street, most likely at gunpoint, since everyone has a gun. I am exaggerating somewhat, but not as much as you might think.
Surprised at some of the content at 2ch - snallygaster - 2009-05-10
Seems quite similar to most foreigners' forums about Japan (not RtK, fortunately). For me, recalling threads like those is a good way to keep a sense of perspective & objectivity when I feel the urge to vent about something.
Surprised at some of the content at 2ch - harhol - 2009-05-10
markal Wrote:I know it's a generalization, but stereotypes about non-Japanese are bandied about very casually in the media here (Japan) and the "scary foreigner" is a pretty well-established one.But you find this in all parts of the world. Where I live, you can't pick up a tabloid newspaper without seeing a derogatory article about Muslims or Eastern European immigrants. I imagine it's a similar scenario in North America re: Hispanics. Anyway, using 2ch as a cultural barometer is a terrible idea. Imagine the impression a Japanese would get from reading 4chan...
Surprised at some of the content at 2ch - danieldesu - 2009-05-10
Yeah, I guess I don't spend a whole lot of time on similar style English-language message boards, where I suspect the content and tone are comparable. The posts that frustrate me the most are the ones that seem more realistic. For example, one person said they lived in America and found it frustrating that the shower heads are always fixed (as opposed to the detachable hose type), and that it was difficult to get clean. The frustrating part is that this same person was perfectly complacent to attribute that as a possible cause for how bad all Americans smell. I guess it could be a light-hearted remark simply following in the vein of the (many) other posts that mentioned how bad Americans smell ("smelly foreigner" stereotype). I will try to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Edit:
Haha, I just looked at 4chan... I guess people are the same all around the world.
Surprised at some of the content at 2ch - Tzadeck - 2009-05-10
harhol Wrote:Imagine the impression a Japanese would get from reading 4chan...Haha, imagine the impression anyone would get from reading 4chan!
Surprised at some of the content at 2ch - markal - 2009-05-10
harhol Wrote:Absolutely (sadly). One difference is that in the US, for example, the anti-immigrant rhetoric is focused on things like "stealing our jobs, sucking up our welfare" etc.. Here it is "foreigners are scary". You'd be amazed at some of the stuff that makes it into magazines here that you would *never* find in mainstream media in the US because they would get sued from here to kingdom come. The following link gives an extreme example http://www.debito.org/?p=192 (the entire archive on this topic is quite interesting if you have plenty of spare time).markal Wrote:I know it's a generalization, but stereotypes about non-Japanese are bandied about very casually in the media here (Japan) and the "scary foreigner" is a pretty well-established one.But you find this in all parts of the world...[snip]
Surprised at some of the content at 2ch - plumage - 2009-05-10
*every* culture has racist elements in it. why are you surprised?
Surprised at some of the content at 2ch - mafried - 2009-05-10
harhol Wrote:I imagine it's a similar scenario in North America re: Hispanics.Maybe in some parts of America, but not where I live (Northern California)... Possibly because there are too many hispanic people that would rightly take offense? (白人 are now the minority in CA). We see the same ignorant, racist comments about Arabs and Muslims, however.
Surprised at some of the content at 2ch - Squintox - 2009-05-10
Thread needs a link >_>
Surprised at some of the content at 2ch - Tobberoth - 2009-05-10
It's the same as everywhere else, have you never been on a normal american forum?
"Lol, japanese people are insane." - link to one extreme japanese video from some crazy gameshow.
"Why do all japanese people love cartoon child pornography?" - link to some hentai
"All japanese people love taking pictures"
Etc etc etc. That's how humans work, we think using stereotypes. It might hurt to read it about yourself, but you are probably doing the same thing every day.
It's really not just Japan either, it's the same all over Europe. America = Fat stupid rednecks who shoot each other for fun. We all KNOW it's an untrue stereotype, but that doesn't mean it isn't in the back of ones head when speaking.
Surprised at some of the content at 2ch - danieldesu - 2009-05-10
Tobberoth Wrote:It's really not just Japan either, it's the same all over Europe. America = Fat stupid rednecks who shoot each other for fun. We all KNOW it's an untrue stereotype, but that doesn't mean it isn't in the back of ones head when speaking.I don't have such a negative opinion/strong stereotype about any country, so I guess it surprised me to see such a widespread negative stereotype about my country.
Edit:
Here is one of the threads that degrades pretty quickly: アメリカでいちばん住みやすい州ってどこ？
Surprised at some of the content at 2ch - Paludis - 2009-05-14
danieldesu Wrote:I don't have such a negative opinion/strong stereotype about any country, so I guess it surprised me to see such a widespread negative stereotype about my country.Yeah to be honest it's not just in Japan, America has a fairly bad reputation just about everywhere. I wouldn't take anything posted on 2ch very seriously though.. If it's anything like 4chan, most of it is just tongue-in-cheek.
Surprised at some of the content at 2ch - Jarvik7 - 2009-05-14
Were you expecting that all Japanese people are far too polite to have the concept of internet trolls? Isn't that a stereotype too?
The English internet is covered with racism, sexism, ignorance, hate and all kinds of other crap too... You can barely mention an Asian woman most places on the internet without seeing "sucky sucky five dolla me love you long time" comments.
Surprised at some of the content at 2ch - harhol - 2009-05-14
On the issue of racism: last night I saw a thread on another message board talking about Japan, and of course the inevitable stereotypes came up. I suggested that almost all victims of this supposed "racism" were mostly rich white kids who had no interest in learning the language and who expected Japanese people to understand their English perfectly and submit to their every whim. I mentioned the issue of landlords discriminating against gaijin and said that, if I was in their position, I wouldn't rent my property to someone with a temporary residency visa who couldn't understand what I was saying.
So of course someone responds with, "You're wrong. I'm fluent in the language and I experience this racism all the time. Every time I speak to someone in Japanese they just start speaking English back to me." So I questioned this remark & asked if she actually was fluent to a an indistinguishable level or if she was only at JLPT1 level, or perhaps even lower. I suggested that two people from different places will communicate in the language in which they're both collectively more comfortable. Her response made me smile. "Well I'm pretty fluent in everyday conversation, but I'm not so good at Kanji. I only know about 200 of those."
Surprised at some of the content at 2ch - Evil_Dragon - 2009-05-14
harhol Wrote:"Well I'm pretty fluent in everyday conversation, but I'm not so good at Kanji. I only know about 200 of those."I heard that one so often it is not even funny anymore.
Surprised at some of the content at 2ch - kazelee - 2009-05-14
markal Wrote:with America being a place you should expect to be robbed on the street, most likely at gunpoint, since everyone has a gun. I am exaggerating somewhat, but not as much as you might think.Depends on where you live and where you go.... >_>
@OP I'm shocked that you're shocked that ignorant people live in this world.