Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar.

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - Printable Version

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Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - cm2jr4 - 2009-04-27

I wanted to see if anyone would be interested in starting a group to do sentence mining of a dictionary of basic japanese grammar. Im sure it would be good since a lot is covered in terms of grammar and with a lot of sentences. I figured if enough people joined, we could get it done quickly. I have the basic and intermediate grammar dictionaries and will be starting on the basic soon. Anyone want to get in on this?

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - Xiaohua - 2009-04-27

I would be interested in participating as soon as I finish RTK1, which will be this week since I just have about 70 kanji left.

I also have the basic and intermediate one, and borrowed the advanced one from a friend even though I won't use it right now haha ^^;

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - captal - 2009-04-27

I'm not really interested as I've been going through the book the last couple of weeks to cover grammar points I haven't covered yet- there are quite a few not covered by 3級.

However, I do think it is a good book to mine- there are a lot of quality sentences. If you mine this book and understand all of the grammar, you should be set for 3級 but not 2級.

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - cm2jr4 - 2009-04-28

hopefully if enough people join, it can be an ongoing project to do all three dictionaries, one at a time; which would be great for the community.

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - Teskal - 2009-04-28

I think it is a good Idea, I will help if I can get enough time for it.

How should the spreadsheet look like?

1. Columns:
Grammatical Terms / Active Sentence
Grammatical Terms / Agent
Grammatical Terms / Appositive Clause (Construction)
Grammatical Terms / Auxiliary Adjectiv
... and more
Characteristics of Jap. Grammar / Word Order
Characteristics of Jap. Grammar / Topic
Characteristics of Jap. Grammar / Ellipsis
Characteristics of Jap. Grammar / Personal Prononouns
Characteristics of Jap. Grammar / Passive
.... and so on
Main Entries / あげる 1
Main Entries /あげる 1
Main Entries / あげる 2
...

2. Columns:
Japanese Sentence

3. Columns:
English Sentence

Should be other Columns included like 'part of speech', 'meaning / function', 'English Counterpart(s)', 'Related Expressions' ?

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - theBryan - 2009-04-28

I would also be interested. I haven't done SRSing yet, but I want to get started on getting a lot of good sentences in. I already have DBJG and DIBG and was about to set about this project on my own, so this is a great idea!

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - Tzadeck - 2009-04-28

I'm pretty damn busy, working full time and just less than half way done with RTK. But, I'd be happy to help to the little extent that I can, just because I like these books so much.

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - cm2jr4 - 2009-04-28

Teskal Wrote:I think it is a good Idea, I will help if I can get enough time for it.

How should the spreadsheet look like?

1. Columns:
Grammatical Terms / Active Sentence
Grammatical Terms / Agent
Grammatical Terms / Appositive Clause (Construction)
Grammatical Terms / Auxiliary Adjectiv
... and more
Characteristics of Jap. Grammar / Word Order
Characteristics of Jap. Grammar / Topic
Characteristics of Jap. Grammar / Ellipsis
Characteristics of Jap. Grammar / Personal Prononouns
Characteristics of Jap. Grammar / Passive
.... and so on
Main Entries / あげる 1
Main Entries /あげる 1
Main Entries / あげる 2
...

2. Columns:
Japanese Sentence

3. Columns:
English Sentence

Should be other Columns included like 'part of speech', 'meaning / function', 'English Counterpart(s)', 'Related Expressions' ?

i think if we keep it like the book, it would be best
front of card has japanese sentence using kanji, no furigana.
back has hiragana reading.
and english translation
it could also have each word translated directly in the order of the sentece, so people can see each word directly.
kinda like AJATT sentences

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - cm2jr4 - 2009-04-28

ok, i just checked, the grammar starts on page 63 and ends on page 573
so that a total of 510 pages that need to be done.
so depending on how many people join will dictate how its split.
so, if you want to join, even the slightest bit, it would be great, because the more people, the less pages each person gets, and the quicker its done.
also, once we get started, i have never really worked with google docs, so if someone who has experience doing spreadsheets in there would like to set that up, they are more than welcome.

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - Codexus - 2009-04-28

I'd like to join too. I have all three volumes and they are great. Full of sentences (so a lot of work to be done).

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - cm2jr4 - 2009-04-28

Codexus Wrote:I'd like to join too. I have all three volumes and they are great. Full of sentences (so a lot of work to be done).

awesome!

ok guys, i just did a short hour of mining starting from the begining of the book.
did about ten pages.

here is an example

Q
私は良子に花をあげた｜あげました

A
わたし　は　よしこ　に　はな　を　あげた｜あげました。
I gave yoshiko flowers.

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - atreya - 2009-04-28

I have all 3 books as well and would like to help in any way I can. Smile

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - cm2jr4 - 2009-04-28

ok, we have six so far everyone interested participates.
that would make it about 85 pages a person. not too bad i think.
did 20 pages today in the amount of 2 hours. got 59 sentences.

i started at 63, when the grammar sentences actually start, so if we do 85 pages apiece
it will look like this

cm2jr4: pg.63-148

you guys are welcome to pick a section, but sure to let us know so were aren't doubling up. If people join or leave, we can recalculate. I should be finished with my section soon.

also another note.

we don't need to do the sentences in the "related expressions" as those grammar points already have there own section, i think i have done it once or twice, if you want you can, but its not required. also, please leave out any examples of the ungrammatical/incorrect sentences so we dont learn to wrong stuff.

thanks

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - stehr - 2009-04-28

i'll join, whomever's running the sheet, pm me

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - cm2jr4 - 2009-04-28

stehr Wrote:i'll join, whomever's running the sheet, pm me

we didnt set that part up yet, i started the group here, but i dont have experience with setting up the google group with the sheet.
if anyone does and want to make the group they can.

this makes seven.

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - Brokenvai - 2009-04-28

I would join.... But I'm barely a newcomer. I'm at 220 in Heisig. -.- I suck hard at defeating procrastination.

Anyways, everything you guys plan on doing would be very beneficial. And I bet by the time I'm done it'll be mostly finished, or if not, I'll try and help as best as I can.

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - Nukemarine - 2009-04-29

Although I don't have the book, I do have a suggestion:

Having a column in your spreadsheet (I assume it'll end up being a spreadsheet) that gives the purpose of the sentence is very useful. Using the table of contents then the subject headings is an easy manner for this.

In addition, bold letters for the portion of the sentence that's the grammar being taught also helps.

Have the format decided ahead of time, as that'll save headaches later.

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - Codexus - 2009-04-29

Here's my idea on how to get organized:

- Divide the book in small blocks of maybe 10 pages (small enough that they are easy to complete)
- Set up a shared spreadsheet listing all the blocks.
- Each block can be either Available, Checked Out or Done
- People use that document to check out a block that they are going to work on, write their nickname and the date (so that we can keep track of what's going on).
- When they are done, they share the results and only then mark the block as done
- Rinse, repeat

When there are no longer any available blocks, we can reassign some blocks if necessary in order to complete the book.

That way, more people can join at any time without any problem. Nobody has a large section reserved so if people disappear it's no problem. People can contribute as much as they want.

Does that sound like a good idea?

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - nyquil - 2009-04-29

Cool. I'd be happy to contribute, especially for the intermediate one, but I can help with the basic one too. Now we just need to get organized.

I also agree that it would be nice to have a column with the purpose of the sentence.

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - Teskal - 2009-04-29

Nukemarine Wrote:Having a column in your spreadsheet (I assume it'll end up being a spreadsheet) that gives the purpose of the sentence is very useful. Using the table of contents then the subject headings is an easy manner for this.

In addition, bold letters for the portion of the sentence that's the grammar being taught also helps.

Have the format decided ahead of time, as that'll save headaches later.

I think this is really important.

We should have a Column for:
1. Purpose of the Sentence like :
ageru 1, ageru 2, ga 1, ga 2, ni 1, ni 2, ni 3, koto 1, koto 2 and so on
2. Sentence in Kanji with bold grammar part
A better way than only bold, would be to do it like in the example sentences part Bold and part in Red.
3. Sentence in Kana (with bold grammar part)
4. Translation
5. Notes (which Book): ADOBJG, ADOIJG, ADOAJG
The Purpose will of the Sentence will help later to find the sentence in the Book again.

- Why ignore the pages before 63? There are many sentences in it.

- Sentences like: 私は良子に花をあげた｜あげました
I think it is better to decide to use あげた or あげました, not both. A little randomized what someone choose.

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - vosmiura - 2009-04-29

I think ADO*JG is great *reference work* useful for *selective* mining of example sentences, but mining them in their entirety sounds like major overkill. Trying to cover the basic grammar in great detail from A to Z is not a good way to do it.

Ofcourse, it would be nice to have any ADO*JG sentences ready to cut & paste whenever some examples are needed, but just saying, I think the basic grammar can be learned by mining some much smaller books, that progressively introduce new grammar, like UBJG to name one.

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - Codexus - 2009-04-29

I agree that It would be overkill to add all the sentences to your SRS but it'd be a really nice resource to have anyway.

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - cm2jr4 - 2009-04-29

thanks guys for all the input and ideas.
so far i have been putting mine into a column page.
dividing them in smaller blocks is also a good idea.
im not sure about adding a third column, because most srs's i have seen are just two column, but if someone comes across something they want to look into, they can look at the extra notes straight from the dictionary since they should already have it.

ok guys, im on page 95 now
should we start splitting some small parts to start?

i also setup the sheet.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=rUkjpajtthNEh1MSkm82q7w

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - Codexus - 2009-04-29

I think we should have a column for page number or it will be extremely difficult to put together the different parts.

Also I think it would be better to have different columns for the kana version and the translation.

I noticed you typed in one of the grammatically incorrect examples (row #5), we should make sure to avoid those.

Sentence mining A dictionary of basic Japanese grammar. - Teskal - 2009-04-29

cm2jr4 Wrote:thanks guys for all the input and ideas.
so far i have been putting mine into a column page.
dividing them in smaller blocks is also a good idea.
im not sure about adding a third column, because most srs's i have seen are just two column, but if someone comes across something they want to look into, they can look at the extra notes straight from the dictionary since they should already have it.

It is easier to combine 2 cells then split them. (I would do it with word and put it in Excel back). But otherwise it is a little more complicated.

So I would suggest to use 3 or more columns.

And also enter suggestions from Nukemarine.