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Using Additional Kanji Study Materials - vai3d - 2006-12-03
I have a question for those that may be further along in the study of Kanji than I, and thus have more input on how it should be approached. If you have other sources of learning the Kanji, how do you go about utilizing those sources in conjunction with the RTK series. For example, the following sources are what I have at my disposal for learning Kanji: RTK 1&2, Kanji & Kana (book), White Rabbit Press Kanji Flash Cards (http://www.whiterabbitpress.com), private tutor.
I have been studying with a private tutor for a few weeks now in order to advance studies, and I told her about how I was going about learning the Kanji. She agreed with the style since Heisig's book on Kana worked remarkably well for me a while ago. However, she also recommended a book distributed by The Japan Times as well as the White Rabbit Press flash cards, so I went and bought them.
My initial take is that it would be beneficial to start utilizing those resources after RTK Volume 2 is begun (learning the reading of the Kanji rather than just keyword/picture associations). However, I'm wondering if it would be okay to learn from say, the Flash cards, at the same time along with RTK as they take the approach of teaching you the most utilized Kanji first.
Have others used other sources besides Heisig's RTK series, and if so, how do you suggest they be studied? Thank you kindly in advance for your input.
Using Additional Kanji Study Materials - aircawn - 2006-12-03
Myself, I haven't used anything other than RTK1. In his introduction to the 4th edition he says using other methods to learn the kanji will only get in the way and I'd agree with that.
The way I see it, what RTK1 does more than anything, is give you the ability to distinguish between one jumbled mess of strokes and the next. Which is important considering learning the meaning and the readings of a kanji isn't going to help you if you confuse it visually with different one.
Other than flashcards (electronic or physical) which are essential review tools, I'd stick with RTK1 by itself until finished and then use other textbooks later to add extra knowledge to the kanji you know now, and those you'll learn afterwards.
Although I'm sure there are others on here that are wiser than I. :)
Using Additional Kanji Study Materials - DurablePants - 2006-12-03
yeah, i would just stick to using RTK1 and this website
Using Additional Kanji Study Materials - fragileshards - 2006-12-04
I don't think it hurts to start picking up readings while you are still finishing RTK1, of Kanji that you have already covered that is. Trying to learn Kanji without RTK is just a bit frustrating. I'm currently working in Japan, have been using RTK for almost a year (At 1500), and I've picked up a surprising number of readings just from exposure but only if I already knew them from RTK. (I just wrote 3kyuu and had no trouble with the Kanji readings) I don't feel that learning some readings before finishing RTK1 has hurt my progress. In fact, I think it provides extra motivation for me - when I bump into a new Kanji that I'd like to read but haven't covered in RTK it makes me want to forge ahead in RTK so I get started on it.
I have run into a few problems when I learned the kanji and readings that I had yet to cover in RTK and then the Heisig keyword in english caused me problems (I always mess up keyword listen 聴 now because I want to write 聞) I'm hoping that will sort itself out when I get up to 聞 in RTK
So imo, a little can actually help with motivation and give you a sense of progress but going too far without the RTK to back you up could lead to some frustration down the road. I'd focus on the RTK and learn a few readings just for fun....
Using Additional Kanji Study Materials - CharleyGarrett - 2006-12-04
My initial thought is "me too". I too would recommend sticking with the one approach pretty well in isolation.
Then I look at myself and ask "Did I do that?" and the answer is pretty well, no, I didn't. So, it's pretty hypocritical to say "Do this", eh? So, just to clarify...within the realm of learning kanji, and reading Japanese, yes, stick to this one discipline throughout. But, at the same time, if you have the will and the time left after what RTK1 consumes, you could begin acquiring the language...vocab, grammar, pronunciation, rhythms, tones. That's all subtle stuff that will take some time too, so you don't want to defer it FOREVER.
So, you may need to prioritize...the rule of the finite time/space/money thing. I've spent YEARS (it seems) doing everything except kanji, but RTK1 has worked in a pretty quick time frame to give me those fundamental building blocks. The ABC's come before learning to spell words.
But you can learn the words before the ABC's, you just won't know how to read and write them. So long as you don't get sucked off into a tangential waste of study time, there's tons of other stuff to learn about Japan, and the language, besides literacy. I'm convinced though that the law of input is true. There are a billion times more things to read and hear than I will ever say or write (and the point for me is that I don't live in Japan nor do I have many japanese speaking friends). So, for me to gain access to that ton of input, I need to be able to read it.
So, in addition to RTK1 2 and 3, and this website, I have the Kodansha Kanji Learner's dictionary (KKLD which I can recommend), and I've collected a handful of other dictionaries and stuff that didn't work all that well...I wouldn't recommend them but I'm not getting rid of them either. One that I do consult frequently is Sanseido's Daily Concise Japanese English dictionary. It's very small, but it does fit pretty well in a pocket. You have to know hiragana/katakana and the alphabetical order of the sounds of japanese to look stuff up. Lots of times the words that I hear or stumble upon are here and I'm not always online to use the online dictionaries. I routinely visit http://www.kanji-a-day.com and http://www.thejapanesepage.com/howtowow/ and of course http://www.kanjiclinic.com---though that one is only updated about 1x ever other month, and http://www.kanjicafe.com/ (not so much lately as previously). There is http://japanese.about.com/blpod_dec.htm "phrases of the day" and they have a person speak and write the potd. I don't spend a LOT of time looking at the written forms there, but I do LOOK at them, so I guess that counts.
Other than kanji, I would also like to say that I enjoy japanesePod101.com. With the basic membership, you also get access to the .pdf files that have the kanji for what is done in the podcasts. So, it does relate somewhat.
So, if time is limited, then stick this out for a while. I'd say I feel that it is a top priority, and a fundamental step, even if it is a baby step, it's a baby step that it's really going to take some effort to complete. Not an ending in itself, but a very important step. Yeah.
Using Additional Kanji Study Materials - laxxy - 2006-12-04
I'd stick to a single kanji learning order as much as possible (ie. RTK1). Of course you can use pre-made kanji flashcards (just write in the Heisig keywords if they are not printed there) to review the RTK kanji. Do not try to actively memorize readings/compounds, but maybe just look at them as you are reviewing. This is what I was doing.
I am personally not convinced about the benefits of RTK2, so after you are done with RTK1 you may again stop and think about what would be the best way to proceed for you. Kanji in Context is imo a nice option.
just my 2c.
Using Additional Kanji Study Materials - vai3d - 2006-12-04
Thank you all for your input. The general feeling seems to be that sticking to one learning method/material is key to completing the ultimate objective. To deviate from RTK1 to pursue another material definitely sounds like it would amount to much frustration and wasted valuable study-time. I may, however, take a peak into the excellent websites that have been listed above along with some additional study materials for motivation to chug along from time to time. In regards on what to do about learning the readings/contextual usage of the kanji, it sounds like this can be accomplished in a much less strict fashion.
Basically, it sounds that bouncing around study materials during dedicated study-time would defeat the sole purpose that Heisig's RTK1 book pursues -- learning those associations, primitives, and writings.
I do, however, fear one thing. Since there are quite a few kanji that do not necessarily make much sense to us based on their composition of primitives, along with the meshing of stories... I fear that once the chugging away has completed, a good number of these keyword associations will be lost during the reading/context studies, and the only way to maintain those would be to review, review, review.
In speaking with my private tutor, I was somewhat surprised that she, being native, also needed to review flash cards from time to time on those tough-to-remember associations and writings. Perhaps, like some of you stated above, the strategy simply lies in continued motivation to learn the language as well as the culture... and with this motivation in every hour of study, the persistance will pay off and those many brain cycles that could have potentially been wasted on figuring out the best way to memorize something or achieve the ultimate goal would be saved. In short: Stick with RTK1 until the end and really nail those associations before worrying about any readings or contextual placement what-so-ever.
Again, thank you for your input. One added question would be to anyone who has completed or near-completed the full 2000+ kanji in RTK1: Have you found the quest to learn readings/context to be MUCH less intimidating or tough AND have you found yourself often forgetting the proper writings or meanings of kanji covered in RTK1?
Using Additional Kanji Study Materials - CharleyGarrett - 2006-12-04
Quote:One added question would be to anyone who has completed or near-completed the full 2000+ kanji in RTK1: Have you found the quest to learn readings/context to be MUCH less intimidating or tough AND have you found yourself often forgetting the proper writings or meanings of kanji covered in RTK1?I can "read" in the sense of understanding lots of stuff due to RTK1, without being able to "read aloud". I don't find that intimidating. Getting the yomi is a big step. It's going to take me a while, I'm sure. Just knowing the readings of kanji does not always help know the reading of a word made up of a couple of them. Just like we don't always know how to spell words in our own language...there are some exceptions to every spelling rule. But, I know that'll come as I learn more vocabulary in context, more sentences. I may forget the keyword, and maybe even the story, but I haven't found that I forget the meaning or the writing. As the japanese word takes over, then the RTK1 scaffolding fades away. That's my experience. I 'spect that is the way it's s'posed to work.