Codexus Wrote:Actually, while it made me laugh when it was first launched for the sheer craziness of that idea. I find this "Heisigspeak" to be extremely annoying, especially when it appears at random in non Kanji-lish-related topics on this forum.

jorgebucaran Wrote:You can control Kanji-lishing pages so it's not annoying as if it was getting in your way cluttering the text. You get to decide. This is fun.

vgambit Wrote:

jorgebucaran Wrote:You 可an 轄ontrol Kanji-lishing pages so it's 勿ot annoying as if it was getting 中n your way cluttering the text. You get to 決ecide. This is fun.

It might 勿ot be getting 中n your way, but it gets 中n mine when 民eople 職ost the way the 糸hread creator did.

Tobberoth Wrote:I'd say the tool is bad, possibly detrimental. Tons of useless kanji<->english going on.

Tobberoth Wrote:I'd say the tool is bad, possibly detrimental. Tons of useless kanji<->english going on.

thermal Wrote:I am also skeptical if the net effect is positive. I think once you know a kanji as in know the meaning, know the common words in which it appears and know its common readings, it's better to forget the association to English. You also want to keep this association as weak as possilbe. The important thing is that you remember the story which tells you how to write it and the meaning (as in the feel of it) not the keyword. I'm afraid this plugin is going to create strong ties between Japanese and English.

sethg Wrote:I just cannot see how this could be detrimental.

iSoron Wrote:When you look at 愛, the first thing that should pop up in your head is あい, not 'love'.
語 should be ご, not 'word'. 敷 should be しく, しき, not 'spread'.

Tobberoth Wrote:And if that wasn't enough, this gives extra exposure (making the SRSing easier which might mess with long term memory)

sethg Wrote:I mean, if you're going to use that kind of logic against Kanji-lish, then you should use it against Heisig as well. We're all using Heisig and we're all learning to associate the keywords.

Tobberoth Wrote:I'd say the tool is bad, possibly detrimental. Tons of useless kanji<->english going on.

sethg Wrote:What's the difference between extra exposure through kanji-lish and extra exposure through real Japanese? If you don't know the readings yet... and you're still in the process of Heisig, there isn't really a difference. And to state that extra exposure "messes" with long term memory... :: sigh ::. The SRS is a tool to be used. But should you fail a card no matter what if you accidentally saw that kanji and it's meaning while flipping through Heisig earlier in the day?

Tobberoth Wrote:The extra exposure from real Japanese is real Japanese, it's what you're supposed to learn. New words, new readings, kanji in their proper context. Even if it's slightly detrimental to the pure kanji writing and recognition aspects, it's worth it because of everything else you learn from it. And that, is the difference.

As for extra exposure messing with long term memory, it's really nothing to sigh about. There was a big discussion topic about it some months ago where I was on your side but people posted TONS of scientific articles about how proper SRSing gives better long-term memory than over exposure.

You SHOULD fail a card if you saw it when browsing through the Heisig book the day before, but how will you remember? "Oh, I saw this kanji on a website using kanjilish 5 days ago, i need to fail it!". Not going to happen.

iSoron Wrote:With RTK, we are connecting keywords to kanji, not the other way round. The kanji to keyword link remains foggy, even after you finish the book, and can be easily replaced by other, more meaningful associations, like kanji to reading. With Kanji-lish, you're actively reinforcing a link you'll want to discard later on, so it makes no sense.

TaylorSan Wrote:This is also why I like doing both, they mutually reinforce, and the fun/motivation factor is personally more beneficial for me, than any lack of efficiency I encounter upon coming across unfamiliar kanji, in the mining/SRS reps

TaylorSan Wrote:[i]f you have well moved beyond key words, then I can imagine how the application might feel "annoying". Romaji feels that way to me. But like many here, I'm still working on my mastery of the Heisig stage, so I feel the benefit of the app, for the time being.

sethg Wrote:Using this logic, I absolutely couldn't create any kind of immersion environment and still do RTK. If I failed every kanji card on my SRS just because I'd seen it in a caption, book, manga, or doodled it on my paper during class, I would never finish the book, because I'd be too busy reviewing failed cards.

I can see how you're very concerned about long-term memory and that's understandable, but I think that it's important to consider, really, what we're learning here. We are learning Kanji. These characters are things that, if we continue to study and learn Japanese, and read Japanese, we're going to see hundreds upon thousands of times. I don't think we should all be incredibly focused on embedding that kanji into our long-term memory at the risk of neglecting other fun and different ways of studying. We're going to be seeing and using those same kanji a lot later on when doing sentences (or, if you don't plan to do sentences, when reading).

As for the difference between kanji-lish and real Japanese, I can see how you'd lean towards the more natural thing here, but going back to your previous argument, wouldn't you have to fail all the kanji you saw and recalled the keyword for?