Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once?

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - Printable Version

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Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - LegionOfDeicide - 2009-04-02

I am at about 1,400 kanji right now and I am dying to start learning some words/sentences. I was wondering if any of you think it is a good idea to kind of start learning words/sentences once you have gotten to the 3/4 mark. I have been trying that AJATT method and it is driving me insane to just learn kanji and nothing else until you are done with the first part of Heisig.
I have a basic idea of what is going on in Japanese. I just want to start learning some new stuff so that I can actually start enjoying the Japanese language for what it is worth.

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - cozmic0 - 2009-04-02

yep I'm on 1300 mark and starting doing sentence too... taking sentence from smart.fm into Anki... I'm avoiding kanji that I haven't learned yet though... But I think it's also good to start brushing up on grammar too... I'm reading Tae Kim along as well

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - igordesu - 2009-04-02

yeah, most people go through that stage. seriously, just focus on finishing Heisig. Remember, every moment that you spend on sentences is one less moment you're spending on kanji. Fully focus on Kanji, and then fully focus on sentences.

...That being said don't be afraid to read through explanations (like Tae Kim's guide or other stuff). I wouldn't start SRSing sentences, but you can read and reread explanations for stuff that you wonder about. Believe me you'll learn a lot that way. I actually picked up a lot of understanding just from reading random explanations like that over the course of 6 months before I started Heisig. It wasn't even studying, it was just geeky reading for fun. And don't be afraid to look up words that you don't understand.

However, I still say finish Heisig ASAP. You'll be able to start sentences fully and start really growing your comprehension. IMO, there's a realistic limit to how much Japanese you'll really learn to understand before you finish Heisig and start really studying.

Remember, finish RTK1 ASAP. BUT, slow and steady wins the race...

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - Codexus - 2009-04-02

As long as you don't stop reviewing the kanji there won't be any harm done by doing something else for a while. You won't get the full benefits of RtK until it's completely done though.

Staying motivated is more important than any concern about what is the most efficient way to learn. Smile

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - QuackingShoe - 2009-04-02

Even if you don't put sentences into a sentence deck or whatever, it's still great to spend time listening to and reading Japanese. You'll learn things. Just to cut off on the workload, I'd recommend going that route; that is, avoiding accumulating sentences and just doing a bunch of casual reading.
At the end of the day, that's probably more useful than concentrated sentence collecting anyway.

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - LegionOfDeicide - 2009-04-02

igordesu Wrote:yeah, most people go through that stage. seriously, just focus on finishing Heisig. Remember, every moment that you spend on sentences is one less moment you're spending on kanji. Fully focus on Kanji, and then fully focus on sentences.

...That being said don't be afraid to read through explanations (like Tae Kim's guide or other stuff). I wouldn't start SRSing sentences, but you can read and reread explanations for stuff that you wonder about. Believe me you'll learn a lot that way. I actually picked up a lot of understanding just from reading random explanations like that over the course of 6 months before I started Heisig. It wasn't even studying, it was just geeky reading for fun. And don't be afraid to look up words that you don't understand.

However, I still say finish Heisig ASAP. You'll be able to start sentences fully and start really growing your comprehension. IMO, there's a realistic limit to how much Japanese you'll really learn to understand before you finish Heisig and start really studying.

Remember, finish RTK1 ASAP. BUT, slow and steady wins the race...

Thanks for the advice. It just feels like all I do in a day of Japanese study is just kanji. I will review kanji then add new ones and that is it. It seems very "empty" the way I am going about things. After I am done reviewing kanji it is like, "Ok, what now? What else could I be doing that is going to be productive towards my Japanese".

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - Evil_Dragon - 2009-04-02

LegionOfDeicide Wrote:What else could I be doing that is going to be productive towards my Japanese".

Watch movies, anime, news and the like. Wink

You don't need to actively "learn" something to benefit from it.

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - fluxcapacitor - 2009-04-02

I started doing sentences at around 1500 and it was fine. It didn't matter if I ran across kanji that I hadn't learned yet. I could still learn the readings for them.

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - Harrow - 2009-04-03

What Codexus say, switch it up if you need to, keep it fun to stay motivated! Stop adding more kanji until you are ready for another burst, but don't let the reviews slide or you could get demoralised trying to dig out later from under a review mountain. A break can help get your retention rate up while you focus on something else for a few days.

My breaks consisted of watching anime or Jdrama and going back through a very short story I had read with excruciating difficulty last year pre-Heisig. Working back through it was REALLY motivating when I saw how much easier it was now that I recognized a lot of kanji. And the ones I didn't know made me hungry to finish RTK1 and back in I would dive.

Find a pace that works for you and speed up and slow down as needed, just KEEP UP WITH THE REVIEWS.

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - Tobberoth - 2009-04-03

I generally think it's best to finish the kanji first. I know it's boring but you're close to the end and then you won't have to think about it. Read Tae Kim and stuff, but don't SRS it yet, focus that time on the kanji for now. You can be done in less than two weeks.

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - Squintox - 2009-04-03

Hmm, I remember me starting sentences at 1,500 was a terrible idea. But I guess everyone is different, it can't hurt to try right? (okay, it can hurt, but still).

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - Evil_Dragon - 2009-04-03

Tobberoth Wrote:I generally think it's best to finish the kanji first. I know it's boring

Not necessarily. It all depends on how you look at it. If you think learning Kanji is a chore, it probably will be. But if see it as a pleasurable pasttime, it might become one. Sometimes when I make up (funny/strange) stories and noone is around, I have to giggle. Wink

As with many activities, attitude is half the battle.

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - mentat_kgs - 2009-04-03

Put RTK after you as fast as you can. RTK is incredibly painful.

Sentences are much easier and inherently fun. Let them as the prize for finishing RTK.

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - joe_bevis - 2009-04-03

whatever happended to being patient

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - Thunk - 2009-04-03

mentat_kgs Wrote:Put RTK after you as fast as you can. RTK is incredibly painful.

Ditto. I'm too impatient to work on something as arduous as kanji for months on end. I want to get to the fun stuff. So your answer? Hemorrhage kanji. Get it out of the way. I gave myself two months, and am over halfway there. It's grueling, but it's short term. You can do anything short term at full speed.

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - mentat_kgs - 2009-04-03

But it worths. Now that you are used to it, you can probably do it in a faster pace.

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - LegionOfDeicide - 2009-04-03

mentat_kgs Wrote:But it worths. Now that you are used to it, you can probably do it in a faster pace.

Yeah that is true, at first I did 25 a day and now since I got the feel of it I do about 40-50 a day. Which is kind of cool because I tried doing 50 at once about a couple of weeks ago and it was overwhelming for me.

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - rich_f - 2009-04-03

Do whatever motivates you. Only you know what works for you. If it doesn't work for you, stop doing it and do something else.

Asking us will get you what you just got-- half of us will say "Do it," and the other half will say, "Don't do it," then eventually they'll get into an argument about it and bog down the thread. (Which is what happens to just about every question asked here.)

I would add that whatever you do, don't stop with RTK. Slowing down is fine, but don't mess with your forward momentum.

If you want to do sentences, that's cool. Just don't let it interfere with finishing RTK first.

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - usis35 - 2009-04-03

mentat_kgs Wrote:Put RTK after you as fast as you can. RTK is incredibly painful.
.

The problem is that RTK reviews continue after you finish it, and I find it more painful to review than to learn new kanji.

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - mentat_kgs - 2009-04-03

I don't know about that. For me, RTK reviews dropped dramatically after I stopped adding new kanji.

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - LegionOfDeicide - 2009-04-03

Well everyone thanks for the advice. I have been taking frequent breaks during the day from studying Kanji by playing Final Fantasy Tactics A-2 in Japanese. I am just 600 away from being done. I can do it dammit!

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - Tobberoth - 2009-04-04

mentat_kgs Wrote:I don't know about that. For me, RTK reviews dropped dramatically after I stopped adding new kanji.

Same here. I had over 100 reviews each day when finishing because I did 40 kanji a day in the end and It was down to 60 in like a week. Now, two months or so later, I never have over 30 (though it's still always above 20 :/)

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - TaylorSan - 2009-04-07

I second rich_f. I got too burnt on RTK only, and started sentence SRS (at about 1300). I think everyone can agree: MAKE RTK REVIEWS PRIORITY #1! Once that's done, I split time with adding new RTK and sentences. It was really getting me down just RTKing, and I'm glad I mixed it up. One thing with the unfamiliar kanji I run across is that being so familiar with kanji in general, I still learn them without the RTK method, and when the time comes, probably won't need to make up a story for it. I also come here and add the RTK core word to the answer column (sometimes). SRSing is also giving me back that fire to finish RTK. Just make sure you keep at the RTK, and you'll be fine.

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - snispilbor - 2009-04-07

I'm actually a rare advocate of doing sentences alongside kanji. However, I've recently started to realize that putting kanji and sentences in one deck was a mistake. I just wrote about this here:

Using Multiple SRS Decks

Lots of other heretical discussion about SRSing in that article Smile

Don't burn me at the stake

Is it a good idea to learn kanji and sentences at once? - Wally - 2009-04-07

Of course it's a good idea to do both at once ... providing that you find the experience mutually reinforcing, as I do. There is no one-size-fits-all here. If you find sentences to be a distraction, put them on hold. I find them to be mutually reinforcing.