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What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - alantin - 2009-03-12
Hi!
I'm not really sure if this has been discussed here already but I decided to post a new thread anyway!
The thing is that I lived in Japan for a mere three months a couple of years ago and I never really became comfortable with this issue and now that I'm going back again, I'd like to know.
What are you supposed to say and not say as a customer in a Japanese store, service desk, etc.?
The problem isn't so much the situations in which you have someone excludingly attending to you but more about the "visiting the counter"-situations.
Are you supposed to greet the clerk or store attendant in, say, a local Heiwado, how are you supposed to thank them when leaving, etc. or are you just expected to listen to their polite phrases and shut up to not disturb the flow of the transaction?
Also how does it differ in different kinds of establishments like combi, restaurants, and so on.
Might sound like a stupid question but I would really love to hear any experiences and ideas about this! =)
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - Ben_Nielson - 2009-03-12
I'm always amazed at how little Japanese people respond to service workers. I think silence, or nods, or うんs go a long way. Just basically let them know you understand and they'll keep going.
As long as it's not a question they need an answer to, it seems best to be mostly quiet (or lightly affirmative).
But someone probably can answer this question better.
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - kfmfe04 - 2009-03-12
I think store-owners and waiters/waitresses are much more constrained in what they say and how they say it.
I have seen many customers grunt replies or just say うん。Women customers do tend to be more polite and responsive.
People also seem to be much more formal/polite on the phone than face-to-face in a store situation.
So I think in general, it's okay to say what feels comfortable to you. It is a good question, though - never learned this in school...
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - alantin - 2009-03-12
Yeah.. That's something I noticed too but found it somehow contradictory to the politeness of the culture!
My problem was that I tried to do what I do here; greet them - crack a joke if you have trouble with your wallet or something - thank them and say good bye.
It kinda felt weird but just shuttin' up felt weird too! :/
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - bodhisamaya - 2009-03-12
I would say ありがとう. The clerk often seemed startled. It would usually illicit a smile though.
When people don't expect you to be nice is the best time to do so
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - shneen - 2009-03-12
Yeah... Unless they're specifically asking for something, most transactions seem to be pretty silent on the customer's side at places like conbinis, grocery stores, etc. I usually make a point of at least saying ありがとうございます at the end of the transaction.... but other than that, unless they ask me if I need a bag or something, I don't say much. I think it's probably just because in these types of places people are in a hurry.
Funnily enough, one time when I was at a grocery store picking up lunch with a coworker, and when I thanked the clerk he made a comment of "Wow, you're really nice. Japanese people don't really say anything to the clerk."
Restaurants seem to be a little different... Usually people will thank the wait staff/say ごちそうさま, etc.
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - kfmfe04 - 2009-03-12
In terms of politeness, you will find that much of it is extremely culture-centric.
For example, it may be annoying that:
1. Japanese don't say anything when they bump into you
2. When they sneeze, there is nothing to say
3. Japanese slurp their noodles/soup
Overall, everyone's impression is that Japanese society is very polite (I tend to think that, too), but there are little things here and there.
When I first came to Japan, it seemed strange to me, too, that customers seem like they're afraid to "rock the boat" by saying something, or are totally unresponsive towards the store clerks.
But apparently, that appears to be the convention here.
--- Edit ---
Of course, it goes the other way, too - just for the bathroom:
1. Japanese use a separate pair of slippers
2. I heard recently that it's the convention that men sit down when peeing (I heard it too late - my last jgf was complaining that I was standing).
3. You may need to carry your own toilet paper
4. The toilet and the bathroom are rarely in the same room (which makes sense in terms of cleanliness)
and lots, lots more...
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - alantin - 2009-03-12
So what can be concluded from this is that; you don't need to chat your brains out but say "[kana]arigatou[/kana]" to the clerk and you'll stand out as the nice and polite foreigner instead of a potential shoplifter!
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - Hashiriya - 2009-03-12
2. I heard recently that it's the convention that men sit down when peeing (I heard it too late - my last jgf was complaining that I was standing).
hehe i heard this one too but my fiance doesn't seem to mind
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - EnjukuBlack - 2009-03-12
kfmfe04 Wrote:1. Japanese don't say anything when they bump into youI think this is more indicative of big city (especially Tokyo) attitudes than a general Japanese tendency. In the area that I live, which is much more rural, people not saying 「すみません」 are the exception rather than the rule.
kfmfe04 Wrote:2. When they sneeze, there is nothing to sayAnd why should there be?
This is one thing that always bugged the hell outta me back home. Can anyone provide me with an even remotely plausible reason why it's necessary to say something when someone sneezes? And why it's rude if you don't say anything? :mad:
kfmfe04 Wrote:When I first came to Japan, it seemed strange to me, too, that customers seem like they're afraid to "rock the boat" by saying something, or are totally unresponsive towards the store clerks.I don't think the customer is afraid of anything. Instead, in these situations, the clerk is serving the customer, and since Japan is 縦社会, this would mean that the customer is "above" the clerk (and, by association, "above" having to say anything to the clerk).
kfmfe04 Wrote:2. I heard recently that it's the convention that men sit down when peeing (I heard it too late - my last jgf was complaining that I was standing).Really? That's the first I ever heard of this one. What are all the urinals in public bathrooms for then, I wonder? :/
That reminds me, though - one of the first apartments I lived in was so old that the western toilet had instructions on how to use it printed on the inside of the toilet seat. It had one of those ubiquitous black person shapes (like on the men's and women's bathroom doors), and it was standing and peeing into the toilet (the urine represented by a dotted line arcing through the air into the bowl), and beside that, he/she was sitting and crapping into the toilet (#2 being represented by a line of small circles falling into the bowl). :O
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - mattyjaddy - 2009-03-12
In general, you don't have to say much to the clerk when you are checking out. Answer their questions when needed and say thank you if you want to as you leave. You really shouldn't look to other foreigners for answers. You'll probably get the best answer if you simply take a moment, maybe five minutes before you check out, and observe what the Japanese people in the same situation are saying and doing. That will give you the best indication of culturally appropriate behavior.
I concur with Enjuku. I would say that, if anything, Japanese are much more considerate with incidents such as bumping into someone and such. Even when one person is clearly at fault, the other person will often be the first to say "Sumimasen". It's a way to avoid hurt feelings on either side. It's so nice. It removes all blame and guilt from the situation. Then again, I also live in the countryside. So my perspective is a bit biased.
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - kfmfe04 - 2009-03-12
EnjukuBlack Wrote:I'm talking about your toilet at home - sorry, not rich enough to have a urinal at home.kfmfe04 Wrote:2. I heard recently that it's the convention that men sit down when peeing (I heard it too late - my last jgf was complaining that I was standing).Really? That's the first I ever heard of this one. What are all the urinals in public bathrooms for then, I wonder? :/
It is a strange one, but I heard it from two independent sources:
1. A foreigner who told me that it's what Japanese men do (while listing some Japanese customs).
2. A jgf who insisted that I do it.
They could both be wrong or both be bs'ing me - in that case, I plead guilty.
http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=3373
On the other hand, if you are more open-minded, maybe you'll learn something...
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - woodwojr - 2009-03-12
Um, urinals start at well under $100 here, so probably not too different for you. I know the world's been having some tough times lately, economically speaking, but surely that still doesn't qualify as "rich"?
Edit: also, 40% seems to fall at least 11% short of "the convention".
~J
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - resolve - 2009-03-12
I was similarly baffled by what to say when I first came to Japan. I started off with ありがとうございます, but that resulted in the occasional chuckle from people at the counter presumably because it was not the traditional customer role.
These days, I either utter a quick どうも, or just give them a silent nod of the head. Some Japanese people are quite rude to shop attendants, but I have no desire to go that far to fit in.
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - b0ng0 - 2009-03-12
I always just said "arigatou" or "thank you" if they tried to speak English to me.
Personally, I think that although it's nice to follow customs in the country you are in, there is nothing wrong with being polite. Certainly, I would feel bad if I didn't say thank you and even if Japanese don't tend to say it to clerks, it's always good to give a good impression as a foreigner by being over-polite even if it isn't the norm in Japan.
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - plumage - 2009-03-12
Some of it just depends on your context. After all, in NYC many small shop clerks (even big shop clerks) can transact an entire purchase without acknowledging you at all. Not a single word.
And if someone bumps you or does something where they are clearly in the wrong (driving 50mph on a residential street when you're crossing on foot), they'll still yell at you like you're a jackass.
Coming from CA, where store employees are usually trained to be friendly and chatty (and maybe we are, just by nature), it's been a very hard adjustment. I can even say hi and thank you to shop clerks in NYC and get no response. CA is known for road-rage though.
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - Codexus - 2009-03-12
EnjukuBlack Wrote:I find that really annoying too. It's originally a superstition that people often mistake for politeness. It can make you seem quite uneducated if you do it in a formal situation so it's better to get rid of that bad habit.kfmfe04 Wrote:2. When they sneeze, there is nothing to sayAnd why should there be?
This is one thing that always bugged the hell outta me back home. Can anyone provide me with an even remotely plausible reason why it's necessary to say something when someone sneezes? And why it's rude if you don't say anything? :mad:
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - alantin - 2009-03-12
kfmfe04 Wrote:2. I heard recently that it's the convention that men sit down when peeing (I heard it too late - my last jgf was complaining that I was standing).LoL
IMO let people pee in what ever way they like as long as they do it cleanly, in private, and don't draw unnecessary attention to it. By the looks of some public toilets some people really don't have a clue how to do it standing up..
Still going more astray from the subject but this guy really has some issues about this.. The part, that really cracked me up, starts from "2:18"..!!
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - oggthegoblin - 2009-03-12
EnjukuBlack Wrote:To stop your soul escaping through your nose of course.kfmfe04 Wrote:2. When they sneeze, there is nothing to sayAnd why should there be?
This is one thing that always bugged the hell outta me back home. Can anyone provide me with an even remotely plausible reason why it's necessary to say something when someone sneezes? And why it's rude if you don't say anything? :mad:
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - Pangolin - 2009-03-12
kfmfe04 Wrote:http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=3373I see the custom of sitting down has undergone a sharp increase in the last 10 years, according to the poll. I wonder if that correlates with an increase in the number of electric toilets being installed. Those things are addictive, for both the heated seats and water jets. Why wait until you need a dump to enjoy them?
As for dealing with tenin, being of a taciturn and somewhat grumpy nature myself, I tend to follow Japanese customs, which I don't in any case find to be amazingly dissimilar to what goes on in London, for example (and as plumage said, in NYC). And I don't see why gaijin should not be asked their opinion or advice on this; we have eyes and ears, and quite a number of us, no doubt, have witnessed hundreds or thousands of such transactions.
I totally agree with resolve on the old ありがとうございます/した, surely they would have had to have done something extraordinary to deserve that level of respectful language.
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - Ben_Nielson - 2009-03-12
oggthegoblin Wrote:To stop your soul escaping through your nose of course.Plausible enough.
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - Tobberoth - 2009-03-12
I always used a simple ありがとう when I lived in Japan. It's not that it's needed but what's the harm in being polite? Just don't exaggerate with a どもありがとう or something, that will sound like you're being sarcastic.
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - woodwojr - 2009-03-12
b0ng0 Wrote:Personally, I think that although it's nice to follow customs in the country you are in, there is nothing wrong with being polite.Er? Are you assuming some kind of absolute standard of politeness?
~J
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - alantin - 2009-03-12
Being polite where it really isn't expected, does stand out in a good way!
Although I heard of some funny experiences of some stuartess'! They had been only taught super polite Japanese, that they needed in their work, and it used to get them some pretty amused attention in the Japanese stores!
What are you supposed to say in a Japanese store anyway? - bodhisamaya - 2009-03-12
kfmfe04 Wrote:2. I heard recently that it's the convention that men sit down when peeing (I heard it too late - my last jgf was complaining that I was standing).In complete contrast to the rest of my experience in Japan, bathroom etiquette is where Japan check-mates the rest of the civilized world in rudeness. 100yen for toilet paper? How can one relax squatting while going #2? There is something sacred about being on the "throne" that Japanese people do not understand. :/
3. You may need to carry your own toilet paper
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tamaiyuya/74134502/