+- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com)
+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: General discussion (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-8.html)
+--- Thread: Pronunciation assessment anyone? (/thread-2693.html)
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - Nuriko - 2009-03-05
I think most people here are far beyond me, seeing as I haven't even had a conversation in Japanese other than with myself (duh har :B?). But I just thought of something. It might be interesting to exchange short sound files as a way to kind of assess pronunciation (I've done this with a Japanese language exchange partner a few times but it was a little one-sided with just me blabbing). Especially since proper pronunciation seems to be a concern among many. And even though we're all non-native speakers, there are probably people who can sound out incorrect stuff that needs work (we've all heard that one gaijin who sounds like they're trying so hard, but you can't help but want to plug your ears...) I realize it's exposure to some potentially harmful Japanese... in the most tiniest form possible, however.
Also, I'm really really curious about how you guys sound, hearing all these stories in different threads and whatnot.
So, read aloud something short and upload it to mediafire, megaupload, whatever way you wanna go about it. I'm interested to hear some Japanese out of people and maybe reach a point where users can help correct pronunciation mistakes (those that can be spotted) for one another.
I hope I'm not alone on this idea! (at least let me know if you think it's a -good- idea?
?)I'm starting off with mine. Nitpick all you want: http://www.mediafire.com/?3jm1m5im3du
With constructive criticism we grow, yes?
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - Jarvik7 - 2009-03-05
If you want other people to contribute you should probably post up a script of whatever it is that you read. It's easier to compare if everyone is saying the same thing.
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - Nuriko - 2009-03-05
Hmm. While that's also a good idea, I'm not particularly suggesting we say the same thing. People might just end up mimicking each other But you're right, transcribing may be a good idea. 自分の発音能力はあまり上手じゃないからね。
This is what I read in the above file I uploaded:
”高校１年生の夕城美朱（ゆうき みあか）は、「四神天地書」という本の中の世界から、冒険を終えて帰って来たばかり。本の中で出会った恋人も、神獣、朱雀の力で現実の世界に転生し、再び出会うことができた。
ところが、幸せいっぱいの美朱の目の前に、また朱雀が現れた。朱雀は邪悪な存在である「魔神」を封印するために、美朱と恋人のたかの力が必要だといって、美朱の時計に入り込んだ。”
ーー
以上です。
どうやら"たか"の漢字はどこにも載っていません（それとも私は単なる無精をしてる？正解です）。だから「たか」のままで。
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - captal - 2009-03-05
I hate that my first reaction was "woah, it's a girl." For some reason I think of everyone on the internet as men, sigh. ごめん. Probably too much time in forums with almost only men.
Sounded pretty good after one time through, but I'm not anywhere near qualified to make any kind of assessment. I've been listening to audio books (specifically the short stories from Read Real Japanese (fiction))- and one comment I'd make is that you're speaking pretty slowly compared to the narrator of the aforementioned book. The editor of the book said the narrator is reading at a normal pace, fwiw.
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - Tobberoth - 2009-03-05
Safe to say, I'm very impressed. I also think it was brave of you to upload a clip of yourself speaking
I heard some places where it didn't sound perfectly natural, but for the first few seconds, I thought it was a Japanese person reading and that you (probably a guy
) would read afterwards. Very impressive.
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - nac_est - 2009-03-05
Here's my constructive criticism:
ワァー、上手だな〜！
You sound like a professional, and your voice is pleasant too. Do you practice a lot by recording your voice (shadowing, for example)?
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - alantin - 2009-03-05
Come on guys! The internet can't be that homogenous!
Nuriko, you sound very natural and I could hardly hear a foreign accent.
I could hear a little weird intonation here and there, but it is pretty miniscule and I think that it's just a matter or time and more speaking and exposure to get rid of it entirely.
Japanese is a very monotonious language and it seems to be pretty hard to learn to speak naturally for the natives of the more "singing" kinds of languages like English or Swedish. The beat and intonation of one's own language is very hard to shed, but you're doing a very good job!
I think this is a nice idea!
Right now I have a pretty nasty flu going on, that pretty effectively impairs my speaking of any language, but I'll see if I'll later make a recording of my own just for the heck of it!
Edit:
Thanks woodwojr.. 勉強になりました！ ^^
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - woodwojr - 2009-03-05
Flu. If you have a flue going on, someone's bound to come light a fire in you
Quite good; slow, as mentioned. I think your "j"-sounds are too enunciated, but those are the only two issues I could pick up on a basic listen-through.
~J
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - zanzibar - 2009-03-05
Hey, I just made the connection between your choice of text, your avatar, and your handle! --but not until I actually heard you speaking the words. A little slow on the uptake, I guess.
As others have said, it seemed very on-point. I've got a long way to go before I can sound that good. <sigh> You hit that slight 'ng'/'g' note perfectly, and the spacing of your mora was very clear. I still struggle with both of those things, Anki audio files notwithstanding.
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - Serge - 2009-03-05
Nuriko Wrote:I'm starting off with mine.What is your native language, if you don't mind me asking?
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - mentat_kgs - 2009-03-05
Do you know snapwine? http://www.snapvine.com/
It makes it very easy to upload a voice message. People from lang-8 are using it.
I'll be very strict in my evaluation. I'll try to criticize the most I can, so please don't feel bad about it. I want you know I was deeply impressed. You probably sound much better than most natives, specially because your voice is beautiful.
But you asked for criticism so here it is:
Your vowels are perfect. Your consonants are almost perfect. But the Ts and Ps are a little too puffed. Most of your んs were perfect, but you slipped at the 現実.
The いっぱい is not perfect. It sounded more like an いいっぱい.
Your rithm is a bit off balance. Your pitch is good, but the flow is weird.
Ahh,
I'll doing mine as soon as I get home! But i'll take ~8 hours =/
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - ghinzdra - 2009-03-05
I don't intend to hinder your project but for your own sake I think it's better to warn you that you severely underestimate how much mimicking another stranger speaking a foreign language can be harmful to your own mastering of the language . If you want to speak JAPANESE and not some half-assed-third-rate-gaijin-friendly-japanese : read native , watch native and listen native . Even refer to another gaijin to assume your corectness seems plain wrong to me . When you're really interested in a la major language like japanese , you always manage to get in touch with some japanese friends or acquaintance . It's way better to directly ask them how do they think about your flow and your accent.
That's just a friendly advice . Do as you wish.
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - mentat_kgs - 2009-03-05
You misinterpreded our intentions. This is a game. We are doing it for fun. I'm not putting my audio for use as study material, its more for a few laughs and chatter.
Btw, I don't intend to ever pass as a Japanese, when a foreigner can be a more interesting person. I take this seriously specially in my English. Why would I learn to talk like a normal person when I'm allowed to talk like Jack Sparrow?
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - ghinzdra - 2009-03-05
"maybe reach a point where users can help correct pronunciation mistakes (those that can be spotted) for one another."
it does seem to me like studies.....
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - Chandlerhimself - 2009-03-05
My girlfriend just listened to this, so I'll have her give you her view. She said the speed was good and natural, not too fast and not too slow. However she said your accents were too strong(she said words shouldn't be accented as strongly as you said them and a more flat sound is better) and the intonation was off. She said a few of the vowels were also too long or too short(but this wasn't such a big problem). She said the biggest thing that let's her know someone isn't Japanese is when they use different volumes when they're speaking. She said Japanese should always be the same volume(unless you're being emotional) and that words shouldn't be accented with volume. I personally thought it was really good, but I thought you might want some constructive criticism.
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - JimmySeal - 2009-03-05
I agree with everyone else that your recording was awesome. I also agree with woodwojr that the /j/ sound in 邪悪 was a bit strong and the /ei/ in 時計 was a bit overemphasized. Good job though!
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - Hashiriya - 2009-03-05
even Khatz has an accent when he speaks...
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - nac_est - 2009-03-05
We could solve ghinzdra's objection by recruiting an army of Japanese girlfriends to do the critics
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - kyotokanji - 2009-03-05
Well done great stuff. I just played it to my Japanese girlfriend and she pointed out one important thing. She was very impressed to find out that you have never had a conversation with a Japanese person and your level was great for that, better than mine
.
The main fault she said is when you said "冒険を", however it sounded like you said "ぼ け の", wheras it should be "ぼうけんを". Therefore you made a ぼう into a ぼ and the ん was merged into the を to sound like the particle の. This means that you should always be careful with a final ん and to make it crisp and clear and to never allow it to merge into the next word. Also to watch the long and short vowels. Similar to the difference in English between "I'm taking a ferry" and "I'm taking a fairy"
Hope this helps and keep up the good work.
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - Nuriko - 2009-03-05
Whoa, I was hardly expecting compliments! Thank you everyone for your criticism, compliments, opinions, etc. Way to surprise me with feedback from natives! Let them know I really appreciate it and that I'll definitely be taking their comments into consideration. I knew something was up with that "冒険" part.
Thank you nac_est! I'm hardly professional though :B I do shadowing, but not on a large scale. Maybe about 500 sentences out of my 3300 have audio, and I spend a few minutes on a new sentence I'm shadowing, and for all other reviews after that I usually just say it 1-5 times with the speaker (unless it's something really quickly spoken. You know, recorded from the news or something. Then that'll need way more work). Most of my shadowing comes from drama CDs that have the matching sentence in the manga version.
Zanzibar, ふしぎ遊戯ファンでしょう？それを見抜くなんて。でかした！
Serge, my native language is English (詰まんないだろう）. Was there something that made it sound otherwise?
mentat_kgs, thanks for directing me to Snapvine and for your criticism
I'm looking forward to your recording.ghinzdra, I was actually really hoping to stay as far away from mimicking as possible. Also I didn't want to confirm any sort of "correctness." I was hoping for people to find errors that can easily be heard even with a foreign ear. There are people here who have been listening for long enough to be able to differentiate from foreigner and native Japanese speaker. Perhaps you included? But thank you though. I did ask for opinions of the idea and of course your opinion is very valid. Listening to native Japanese is always above anything else.
Anyway, now I wish I could get a native to read this! Then I could really shadow the hell out of it. Maybe set something up with my language exchange partner or someone on mixi.
Anyone feel like uploading their own? (of course it doesn't have to be the same thing).
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - Jarvik7 - 2009-03-05
I only listened to it once yesterday, but one criticism no one has mentioned is with your affricates. j sounds like z etc.
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - nac_est - 2009-03-05
Nuriko Wrote:Anyway, now I wish I could get a native to read this!This is the job for a super J-girlfriend!
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - kazelee - 2009-03-05
nac_est Wrote:How racist... lol....Nuriko Wrote:Anyway, now I wish I could get a native to read this!This is the job for a super J-girlfriend!
jk
To the OP. I can't tell what they're talking about when they say accent. Up until the very end, I wouldn't have been able to tell that wasn't a Japanese person speaking. I'm a total noob though. やっぱり so I can't really offer any usable critique. I can say, keep at it, though.
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - Jarvik7 - 2009-03-05
nac_est Wrote:Haw.. If I have time later maybe I'll see if my gf wants to do it.Nuriko Wrote:Anyway, now I wish I could get a native to read this!This is the job for a super J-girlfriend!
Pronunciation assessment anyone? - woodwojr - 2009-03-05
kazelee: やっぱり and "so" serve the same purpose in your second-to-last sentence as far as I can tell, making one of them redundant.
~J