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radical question - synewave - 2006-11-10
Searched on edict for kanji with the both 'water on the left' and 'flowers at the top' - as in 漢 and 落.
However 満 wasn't returned as I would have expected. I realise primatives aren't necessarily radicals but can't understand why 満 didn't come up...
Cheers,
radical question - Pangolin - 2006-11-11
I would suspect it is because the element in 満 is not the grass bushu but a separate 4 stroke element which is not a radical. Interestingly, Heisig calls this construction "salad" when it appears in later kanji (e.g. 昔), however he doesn't treat the element as salad in 満 presumably because it would take the top stroke away from "both". In other words, it's more logical in the RTK system to treat it as "flowers", but I don't think it is.
The radical lookup in JWPce doesn't find it when searching for grass, and Moji doesn't list grass as a radical for 満 either.
radical question - laxxy - 2006-11-11
JISHOP/yarxi finds it with the grass radical if you turn "Deep decomposition" on. Apparently it is a simplification of 滿, which does not have a grass radical -- maybe that's the reason.
radical question - Pangolin - 2006-11-12
laxxy Wrote:JISHOP/yarxi finds it with the grass radical if you turn "Deep decomposition" on. Apparently it is a simplification of 滿, which does not have a grass radical -- maybe that's the reason.That does make the elements clearer, the simplification though is not in the area of the "grass" radical. In fact it looks even more like "grass". In both the simplified and unsimplified versions it clearly looks like "grass" on top of the "rain" enclosure (enclosing "enter" instead of "drops"). In the unsimplified the top stroke of "rain enclosure" is abbreviated.
On that analysis, it really does seem to be "grass/flowers". I guess more erudite sources would be needed to confirm or deny that.
radical question - JimmySeal - 2006-11-12
Searching by the grass radical will also fail to turn up the character 共 or anything containing it. It seems that the upper part of that salad primitive is not technically considered to be grass. That old form of 満 suggests that the salad primitive might be a modified version of 廿, which is unrelated to the grass radical.
Incidentally, I did find 満 to contain the following radicals: 氵, 冂, ―, l. and 凵
radical question - synewave - 2006-11-12
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
radical question - laxxy - 2006-11-13
Pangolin Wrote:Since I'd expect the top "rain" stroke to be longer, the old form looks more like a "20" on top of a "towel" to me, but maybe I'm wrong.laxxy Wrote:JISHOP/yarxi finds it with the grass radical if you turn "Deep decomposition" on. Apparently it is a simplification of 滿, which does not have a grass radical -- maybe that's the reason.That does make the elements clearer, the simplification though is not in the area of the "grass" radical. In fact it looks even more like "grass". In both the simplified and unsimplified versions it clearly looks like "grass" on top of the "rain" enclosure (enclosing "enter" instead of "drops"). In the unsimplified the top stroke of "rain enclosure" is abbreviated.