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Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - Thora - 2009-02-17
From today's paper: Japan, My Neverland. "I came here seven years ago to escape responsibility. As my 30th birthday approaches, I feel like a Lost Boy"
For anyone grappling with decisions related to school, career, Japan, love, responsibility and identity....you can read 75 (!) opinions here and confuse yourself even more. [audio = text]
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - Jeromin - 2009-02-17
Functionally illiterate after seven years as a teacher... I could not handle that. Not be able to read, with so much beautiful writing all around you?
I sure hope it's not that hard if I ever live there.
I'll go back to praying to St. Heisig, patron saint of lost Kanji causes.
J
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - wccrawford - 2009-02-17
Sounds like a real loser. Job he hates, lost his girl, can't read or write the language of the country he lives in after 7 years. Years! His only marketable skill he only has hobby experience in. Can't stand his home country. No plan.
Yeah, he's a casebook study on how not to live your entire freaking life.
I'm not Bill Gates, but I like my job... I'm fluent in this country (my native one) and learning to be fluent in others... I have hobbies that are both fun and marketable and/or healthy.
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - nest0r - 2009-02-18
Peter Pan syndrome... in Japan! So fascinating and novel.
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - Machine_Gun_Cat - 2009-02-18
What the hell, even I could read and write about 340 Kanji before starting Heisig after about 3 years of Japanese at Highschool ( I'm 17 )
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - Ben_Nielson - 2009-02-18
Obviously the guy came to Japan just looking to be held over until his prospects looked better back home. He never intended to stay (and still really doesn't, it seems)... and his stay just kept lengthening. I've met quite a few people who this has happened to.
He mentions he tried to master Japanese, but I don't think he's being completely honest - my guess is he wasn't a very serious language student. He can probably do some decent conversation, just from years of mild study, though.
He says functionally illiterate - who knows what that means for sure. It obviously hints that he's dabbled in the written language (at the very least) and could mean as much as "can't read a newspaper without problem."
Dumping on the guy for not being literate in Japanese is a bit ridiculous. It takes a ton of motivation to force yourself through the pain of learning Kanji. I know some people love it - but for most, it is a monumental hassle and nothing more than a means to an end. I think it's very easy to see how someone could develop conversational skills in a pretty enjoyable way then completely balk at the immense amount of work required to learn Kanji.
Seeing as how Japan is so incredibly forgiving to foreigners and he didn't have any real interest in staying in Japan longterm, then his lack of studying the written language is somewhat understandable I think. It's pretty easy to listen to the overwhelming amount of people who will tell you that common knowledge is that kanji is impossible for foreigners. You give it a go and discover that yes, it is hard as hell, especially when you're rote memorizing. I've yet to meet a foreigner in Japan who has been here less than 10 years and is literate (to the point where they can just pick up about anything and read without problem).
Thinking about how illiterate people here are really makes me glad I gave Heisig a try. Literacy now seems like a goal completely attainable. I think most people are just struck by how overwhelmingly open ended the task is and never make it very far.
Then again, maybe I defend the guy because the beginning of his story hits a little too close to home for comfort.
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - MeNoSavvy - 2009-02-18
Ummm, there are quite a few people like him Japan. And dare I say it, having lived in Japan myself it is an easy trap to fall into. When I worked in Eikaiwa the work was so boring, each day took an eternity, and by the end of the day the last thing on your mind was to study japanese !! When you have some time off you normally want to get out and not sit around studying either.
I left Japan after a couple of years still functionally illiterate. I did study a bit, but not enough, and not using a good strategy.
Now I'm not the same as him, but I'm not so different either, so I'm not going to judge him. I went back to my own country, I have a decent job, and decent qualifications, but on the other hand I don't really like my job, and there aren't that many other good jobs out there. Often I feel life might be better for me still teaching english at elementary school in japan (I changed to ALT work after working in Eikaiwa).
Once you have gone down a path, even though you know from where you are standing now that it isn't the right path, sometimes it is difficult to change course. Getting a different career going needs qualifications and the right experience, not necessarily easy things to get especially the latter. Changing other aspects of your life can be even harder.
I can't believe you guys are calling him a loser. I think he is just a guy who has lived his life and then realized he doesn't really belong anywhere and maybe should have made different choices. But when you look at the choices he made, at the time, they probably seemed like the right ones.
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - nest0r - 2009-02-18
Cry me a river. Economy at home goes bad, he goes away for an 'adventure' to Japan, pure escapism for seven years without thinking about the calendar, just the girls and beaches and oranges, then hitting 30 and feeling real bad as he talks to mom about how dangerous Toronto is because five year olds can't ride their bikes unattended and the cashiers don't greet him, and he lost his girl and the economy has gone sour in Japan. Oh, and seven years trying to master Japanese amidst the complacent beach walks and shrine visitations and modest English teaching ambitions, yet remaining illiterate? What part of this person's maudlin Lost in Translation whine am I suppose to feel is substantive or even worth anything but cursory mockery?
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - Ben_Nielson - 2009-02-18
haha, yeah, I gotta agree that his reasons for both staying in Japan and not returning home were ridiculous.
I just meant about the literacy...
It is kinda an easy trap to fall into to, I think. But the guy is just kinda wallowing.
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - nest0r - 2009-02-18
I'm more disappointed in this person representing everything wrong and stereotypical about this sort of situation by creating this vapid livejournal entry as archetype to avoid. I'd much rather read pieces by some of the members here that could highlight specific issues and actually demonstrate some semblance of being worthwhile as a symbolic character to feel empathy for.
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - Thora - 2009-02-18
nest0r ... lighten up, Tolstoy.
The total ordinariness of his situation means people can relate to it or they think he's utterly self-absorbed for thinking it newsworthy. They amount to the same thing. He now has 94 comments for a story that isn't exactly national news. It appears to have touched a nerve. I'm not really sure why - people's fear of inertia I guess.
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - nest0r - 2009-02-18
Thora Wrote:nest0r ... lighten up, Tolstoy.That's just what Hitler would say. It appeals to the masses in a centralized format, just let it be. Tsk tsk.
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - Evil_Dragon - 2009-02-18
Maybe someone should tell him about Remembering The Kanji...
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - Ben_Nielson - 2009-02-18
I'd say that the longer you're here, the more disconnected you get from home. That first year, it's hard not to think about moving back a lot. But after you get used to it, it actually starts to seem harder to move back than to stay. That's the trap, I suppose.
Not only that, but you do get lulled into being pretty lazy about your job. Jobs most foreigners get here require little to no effort and give a decent paycheck (for a 20-something out of college). Contrasting it to a competitive job market and your delapidating, unused skillset - it's easy to decide to stay just a little longer.
I met a pretty nice guy at my previous job who was in his late 30s. He said he wanted to head back to the States but felt like his skillset couldn't get him a decent job there paying what he made in Japan without substantial schooling. I didn't really feel like he was feeling sorry for himself, though - just honest. That said, he didn't really seem unhappy, either. (Edit: this guy was a manager of a school and made an okay salary - 45k/year in a rural area)
I'd advice people to come in with an exit plan - at least, an "exit the teaching market" plan if you actually want to stay in Japan for several years/forever. If you do want to head home, buy a return ticket for whatever date you set as soon as you can.
Edit: I've been here for a year and a half, fyi.
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - NightSky - 2009-02-18
Machine_Gun_Cat Wrote:What the hell, even I could read and write about 340 Kanji before starting Heisig after about 3 years of Japanese at HighschoolThis is quite a funny post in that 340 Kanji is practically nothing, and miles away from being functionally literate. And after three years? That also means you are probably learning slower he is!
Met lots of people like this, I don't have all that much sympathy. I taught English for two months before getting out and getting a job as a programmer, and it wasn't all that difficult. So, definitely possible to make more out of life whilst remaining in Japan
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - NightSky - 2009-02-18
Evil_Dragon Wrote:Maybe someone should tell him about Remembering The Kanji...It still wouldn't make him literate.
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - wccrawford - 2009-02-18
MeNoSavvy Wrote:I can't believe you guys are calling him a loser.I call it like I see it. He writes a blog post showing how much of a loser he is, and how badly he's run his life... And I state the same. I don't feel 1 bit sorry for him. It's not like he didn't have a chance. He did, and he sat around all day doing nothing. He moved halfway around the globe. I know people from where I was raised that had never been outside the county (not country, county!) at 18. The next county was an hour away by car. I didn't feel sorry for them, either.
It all comes down to choices he made and now he's wishing he had worked harder.
It's just like saving for retirement. If you start when you get your first job, it's a lot easier than if you start when you are 30. You will have to -double- your effort at this point. He's now reaping what he sowed. Nothing.
Is it hard to learn Japanese? Yes! I never claimed it wasn't. But I'm not calling him a loser for just not being literate. It's his entire life that makes him a loser. The fact that he's not only illiterate but doesn't have any marketable skills... That makes him a loser.
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - Jeromin - 2009-02-18
The way I see it, this is the information age: it took me two days of browsing to find out about Heisig, YesJapan, Father De Roo, this website, AJATT, etc. These resources were around for a few years now. So if he didn't find kanji doable it is his fault. I'm guilty myself of sticking to what was a temporary career to pay for college, of starting a pension plan late, so I hesitate in calling others losers. He can still get out of that situation and get his act together, so it's not a helpful label either, just harsh and permanent. That said, we do reap what we sow.
J
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - Thora - 2009-02-18
nest0r Wrote:I'm like... Hitler? huh?Thora Wrote:nest0r ... lighten up, Tolstoy.That's just what Hitler would say. It appeals to the masses in a centralized format, just let it be. Tsk tsk.
(I'm afraid you've lost me)
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - Tobberoth - 2009-02-18
MeNoSavvy Wrote:But when you look at the choices he made, at the time, they probably seemed like the right ones.My education isn't really worthwhile right now.. let's see, I move to a different country, ignoring any and all responsibility I have for my own life!
Nope, sounds like a bad choice no matter what.
Going to another country is a big thing. He personally decided to simply go to a country knowing very little about it with very little intention of integrating with it obviously. Of course he will feel out of place.
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - nest0r - 2009-02-18
Thora Wrote:Just a joke. The Hitler card is always funny to me. If I were to be more serious, I'd say that this article appeals to insecurity and derision--elevated by its appearance in that paper--when it could be so much more (even as an offhand, mainstream template), as the forum comments here attest. So to me it's just this gimmicky artifact to be dismissed and, when I'm low on sleep and feeling like rambling a bit, to be mocked and critiqued far beyond what it deserves.nest0r Wrote:I'm like... Hitler? huh?Thora Wrote:nest0r ... lighten up, Tolstoy.That's just what Hitler would say. It appeals to the masses in a centralized format, just let it be. Tsk tsk.
(I'm afraid you've lost me)
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - Evil_Dragon - 2009-02-18
NightSky Wrote:Of course RTK is just the first step to being literate.Evil_Dragon Wrote:Maybe someone should tell him about Remembering The Kanji...It still wouldn't make him literate.
And seeing what relatively little effort you need to put in (compared to the rewards), it might be the right choice for him. Especially because it is motivating. Seems to me this guy seriously needs motivation and positive reinforcement.
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - wccrawford - 2009-02-18
Found a blog post talking about 外国人 illiteracy in Japan.
http://www.j2fi.net/2009/02/17/illiterates-in-japan/
Yeah, it's become enough of a problem that companies are starting to do something about it. Good for them.
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - nest0r - 2009-02-18
wccrawford Wrote:Found a blog post talking about 外国人 illiteracy in Japan.That 'sentience' example is pretty bad, though, unless they're talking about a fetus criminal (kicked mother one too many times) that won't be sentenced, with lenience, until it becomes sentient. ;p
http://www.j2fi.net/2009/02/17/illiterates-in-japan/
Yeah, it's become enough of a problem that companies are starting to do something about it. Good for them.
Oh! Or the criminal is in a coma! What a ripping yarn it's becoming.
Canadian teacher 8 yrs in Japan Neverland - woodwojr - 2009-02-18
I'm not sure that's a valid objection; on the other hand, the "have sentience" construction seems awkward. I am, admittedly, finding some sources for it online, but not many; sentience is usually something that one possesses rather than something one would have (much like one doesn't "see television").
On the other hand, it may still have achieved the intended result, considering the number of people who apparently didn't recognize it as a word (though that may be training from years of exposure to mangled English).
~J