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Japanese and Martial Arts - phauna - 2009-02-17
Having recently left Japan and getting back into my old hobbies, I wonder why there is little mention of people learning Japanese for martial arts. I don't do any Japanese martial arts, just a little Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, wrestling, kickboxing and Kali, but when I went to Japan I expected it to be quite common for the Japanese to practice some sort of martial art but I never found anyone who did. They all seemed too busy with work and drinking.
My only fores into MA in Japan were watching a martial arts festival in Yoyogi Park and trying to train at a Japanese Shooto school. The festival was great, highlights included the Aikido master, who, after being thrown, had his cigarette packet launched across the area. He didn't seem embarrassed about it. Also they had yabusame which is horseback archery in traditional costume.
Training at the Shooto gym was short lived. The first night I went I was really bad at Japanese, so I couldn't explain my skill level or experience. The coach teamed me with some guy who ended up kneeing me in the face and chipping my tooth (although it was from a previously repaired chip.). I went a few months more but realised it was too far from my home to justify the travel time every day.
For the unaware, some Japanese martial arts include Karate, Aikido, Judo, Jujitsu, Kendo, Kyuudo, Iaido, and plenty more of less popular lineage. Does anyone learn a Japanese martial art, or a martial art in Japan, and did it make you want to study Japanese? Some arts such as Judo almost uniformly use Japanese nomenclature, even in the West, in order to unify the art amongst different language groups. Any martial art stories to share?
Japanese and Martial Arts - Jarvik7 - 2009-02-17
I practice the martial art of 寝る術. I am a grandmaster.
I'd like to practice 柔術, but I'm too busy to give the kind of dedication that I'd want to, and I don't like half-assing things. Kendo would also be great but it's not quite as practical (unless you carry around a long umbrella always).
Japanese and Martial Arts - timcampbell - 2009-02-17
飲む技の九段
Japanese and Martial Arts - mistamark - 2009-02-17
I also had a funny experience at a Shooto gym here. After a suggestion/introduction from a locally well known guy (competed at ADCC) I showed up a the gym to have the boss get into his gi and on to the mat expecting some kind of foreigner vs local friendly challenge match!!
I know what you mean about expecting people in Japan to study martial arts. It's definitely a stereotype that doesn't really pan out when you actually get here!
I'm currently training BJJ here (from Brazilians, but I'm not trying to learn Portuguese, but am picking up the terminology from exposure) and if people ask me what it is I say Jujitsu, which even though it's a (famous) Japanese art, 99% of the people have no idea. I usually just say 格闘技 (generic term for martial arts) and then the things that they next list are usually boxing and judo.
From personal experience, a percentage of the kids here have had some exposure to Judo or Kendo at school. Even though it's a toss up as to whether the club's teacher actually has any recognised grade in the art they're 'teaching'.
In summary, I think that the percentage of people who train over here is probably the same as in other countries, barring the number of school kids that are forced to do it as their club activity.
Japanese and Martial Arts - Jarvik7 - 2009-02-17
I know way more people in Canada that practice martial arts than I do in Japan. Two of my friends are kung-fu teachers (at different places).
I only have one Japanese friend who is seriously into it (he does 柔術), but he's also in Canada and never wants to go back to Japan.
Japanese and Martial Arts - Tobberoth - 2009-02-17
I've trained karate, southern shaolin kung-fu and muay thai in Sweden. Eventually I realized that I don't enjoy martial arts no matter which style it is so I simply stopped doing it. This was way before I even went to Japan.
In Japan I didn't meet any Japanese person who was into martial art. I did live in the same house as a black man called Skippy who not only taught English on TV, he also trained Kung-Fu on a high level (and spoke Chinese). Cool guy.
Japanese and Martial Arts - karategirl09 - 2009-02-17
For me, I started learning Japanese because I do karate. My sensei is Japanese and we use all Japanese terms in the classes. That got me interested in the language, and this year I am planning to go to Japan to train.
Japanese and Martial Arts - hknamida - 2009-02-17
I practice 合気道, but not in Japan. I mainly do it for fun, although the terminology we use offers some slight exposure to the language. If the opportunity arises, I will definitely train at a Japanese 道場, but as it stands, I don't see how that's ever going to happen.
Japanese and Martial Arts - inkspot - 2009-02-17
mistamark Wrote:I know what you mean about expecting people in Japan to study martial arts. It's definitely a stereotype that doesn't really pan out when you actually get here!I definitely had that perception when I was younger, but I was under the impression the current prevalent stereotypical Japanese person works all the time and doesn't dedicate enough time for themselves and things they enjoy :)
My first contact with bits and pieces of the Japanese language was all the way back in elementary school when I joined a 柔道 club, and then later when I started studying 空手道 (少林寺流) in high school. Neither was really a direct reason for me to start studying Japanese, but they played a part -- mainly through how they indirectly introduced me to aspects of the Japanese culture. Wasn't really until I had done a huge college project about Meiji period art that I decided I wanted to learn the language.
Japanese and Martial Arts - phauna - 2009-02-17
When I was at uni, I endeavoured to try each of the martial arts offered at the uni gym. I took a few of the Japanese Jujitsu classes and I recall the instructor saying that Japanese men these days were too soft, hardly any did martial arts and he would go on and on about how effeminate they were. The instructor wasn't a good one though, one of the ones who make you do useless things for a long period, and can't explain why you were doing them. A bit of a power tripper.
When I was really little I wanted to do karate but my mother was a bit overprotective and would never allow it. At fifteen I ended up taking non-Olympic Taekwondo, but in hindsight it was still a bit crap. Then animal kung fu, tai chi, bagua, wing chun, BJJ, wrestling, kickboxing and finally kali.
Japanese and Martial Arts - mentat_kgs - 2009-02-17
I practice 囲碁. Japanese２段. I'd too love the chance to train in Japan.
Yes, it was one of the reasons to learn Japanese.
Japanese and Martial Arts - rich_f - 2009-02-17
I used to do a lot of 合気道 here in the US until the space my dojo was in was bulldozed, and they moved too far away to be practical for training. But that's how I really got interested in Japanese to begin with. I met a lot of really cool folks from all over the place, and then we'd throw each other around the room, then go have beers afterwards. Lots of fun, actually. Some of the coolest people I ever met.
It might have something to do with the way it was taught over here-- no competitions or stuff like that, so Johnny Beefroid who wanted to try to pound everyone in the head usually wound up leaving after the first lesson or two. (Usually after he found out that he had to take as many as he gave.)
I tried Kendo briefly, since I fenced in college, and was kind of curious about the Japanese approach to swordplay, but it didn't really do anything for me. That, and having both feet turn into two giant freakin' blisters... I still had to work the next day, too... yeah... ouch.
If I ever do get to Japan again long-term, I'll probably take up 合気道 again just to see what it's like to study it over there.
Japanese and Martial Arts - phauna - 2009-02-17
rich_f Wrote:Some of the coolest people I ever met.Competition is the best part. It removes ego even more because more experienced students usually beat newer beasts with technique. This either humbles them or they leave. Without some form of competition you will never know what you can do under pressure.
It might have something to do with the way it was taught over here-- no competitions or stuff like that, so Johnny Beefroid who wanted to try to pound everyone in the head usually wound up leaving after the first lesson or two. (Usually after he found out that he had to take as many as he gave.)
I teach English even in Australia, and my last boss was a Japanese Aikido afficionado. He owned the building the English school was in so he had the top floor converted into an Aikido dojo. Unfortunately after doing BJJ and wrestling I just can't seem to get too interested in Aikido.
Japanese and Martial Arts - Blahah - 2009-02-17
rich_f Wrote:Some of the coolest people I ever met.How ironic that the guy was called Johnny Beefroid... what are the odds?
It might have something to do with the way it was taught over here-- no competitions or stuff like that, so Johnny Beefroid who wanted to try to pound everyone in the head usually wound up leaving after the first lesson or two. (Usually after he found out that he had to take as many as he gave.)
As a kid I was extremely interested in japanese culture and martial arts, especially the history of martial arts. Although the initial obsession faded away as I entered my teens, it actually shaped a large part of my life. I now practice White Crane kung fu and Suang Yuang, and have previously studied kushido and jujitsu. In recent years I became re-obsessed with Japanese - learning it brings back a wonderful nostalgic feeling of how excited I was to practice martial arts in my garden as a kid. Without the inital martial arts interest, I don't think I would ever have known enough about Japan to be interested in learning the language.
Japanese and Martial Arts - Jarvik7 - 2009-02-17
Hey! Johnny Beefroid is a good friend of mine.
Japanese and Martial Arts - Ji_suss - 2009-02-17
mentat_kgs Wrote:I practice 囲碁. Japanese２段. I'd too love the chance to train in Japan.Wow. That's pretty amazing.
Yes, it was one of the reasons to learn Japanese.
I've only just started...a lowly 20 級. It'll be years before I can kick your butt!
Japanese and Martial Arts - jondesousa - 2009-02-17
私は居合道を練習します。 居合道は日本刀について武道です。 道志会の剣道と居合道道場で勉強しています。 私は二段だけです。
道場のウェッブページは”www.doshikai.org"です。 それで居合道と剣道の映画を見えます。
皆さん、どう思いますか。 居合道は聞いた事がありませんか。
日本にいれば、誰も居合道については聞いた事はありません。 それはちょっと悪いです、居合道はとっても面白い武道ですから。
Japanese and Martial Arts - Jeromin - 2009-02-17
Ji_suss Wrote:Japanese shodan, which is about 4 kyu in the west (KGS or EGF, not sure which) is doable in a year, with committed practice. Beyond that, I don't know, since I'm only 8 kyu myself.mentat_kgs Wrote:I practice 囲碁. Japanese２段. I'd too love the chance to train in Japan.Wow. That's pretty amazing.
Yes, it was one of the reasons to learn Japanese.
I've only just started...a lowly 20 級. It'll be years before I can kick your butt!
J
Japanese and Martial Arts - Wisher - 2009-02-18
What about Ninjitsu? Isnt that also Japanese? Has anyone touched that or is it taboo to talk about it?
Wisher
Japanese and Martial Arts - rich_f - 2009-02-18
phauna Wrote:Competition is the best part. It removes ego even more because more experienced students usually beat newer beasts with technique. This either humbles them or they leave. Without some form of competition you will never know what you can do under pressure.Personally, I prefer to have new students learn to respect the senior students not because they BEAT them into mash, but because the senior students know what the hell is going on, and can teach the new students proper technique and how to improve, and the new students RESPECT them for that.
Also, the new students learn pretty fast that if they don't pay attention to what's going on in class, they'll get hurt. Everyone takes falls, both senior and junior students. That's just how it goes. You can't learn how to take someone down and pin them if your partner isn't willing to be pinned. (In the learning stages, anyway.) So when you work with a senior student, first you get pinned a few times to help them (out of courtesy to their rank), then you get to pin them a few times. Good senior students will go easy on the newbs to help them get a feel for how the technique works, even if they don't get it completely right. Yeah, they could go all HARDCORE and fight them like in a REAL fight, but that's not really the point.
Give and take. I think that's a better way to learn. At least, that's what I'll put up with in a dojo for 2 hours at a time.
That was how we got some of our best students to enroll at the dojo, one of whom was this giant 300-lb Russian dude made of pure muscle (he would test your techniques just by kind of standing there. dude was impressively massive), and the other was a 4'11" grandma. And they both worked well with each other.
Japanese and Martial Arts - Tobberoth - 2009-02-18
Wisher Wrote:What about Ninjitsu? Isnt that also Japanese? Has anyone touched that or is it taboo to talk about it?Ninjutsu is quite often looked down upon since it generally has very little to do with actual ninja and just capitalizes on myths and hollywood ideals.
Wisher
If someone has found a serious and good dojo for ninjutsu that's cool and all but I would probably stick to a more "proper" martial art myself.
Japanese and Martial Arts - hknamida - 2009-02-18
Wisher Wrote:What about Ninjitsu? Isnt that also Japanese? Has anyone touched that or is it taboo to talk about it?I'm certainly no authority on the subject, but I hear 武神館武道体術 is one of the closer modern equivalents to traditional 忍術. I haven't tried it myself, though.
Wisher
Japanese and Martial Arts - mafried - 2009-02-18
I am a student of 武神館武道体術 (4 years), and have traveled to Japan specifically to study this art. It's my primary motivation for learning Japanese. Do a google search on 武神館, or it's romanization "Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu" and you should find plenty of information in your choice of 日本語 or English.
To the original topic, one must draw the distinction between modern/sport "arts" (i.e, Judo, Kendo, which are quite popular in Japan) and the traditional martial disciplines. My sword instructor once commented that the lack of interest in traditional martial arts by 日本人 was due to a decline in traditional values, a prepondance of greed in Japan's consumer culture, and the disappearance of “strong, samurai hearts” that he associates with traditional Japan. Typical words for a grandmaster, and for a man of his generation, no matter the culture. My direct teacher put it better when he remarked that the Japanese see us (the foreign martial artists) the same as we would view a foreigner speaking little English flying in to Houston to dress up like a cowboy and strut around Texas practicing his quick draw.
To the Japanese mindset, martial arts are a thing of the past: antiquated, and of little value. The reasons for this are cultural, and come from both directions. In Japan there is certainly a strong bias to "throw out the old, bring in the new." You'd need only look to the Meiji restoration and the post-WW2 recovery to see examples of that. Unfortunately there is the risk of throwing out the baby (traditional M.A.) with the bathwater (vestiges of feudalism). On the other side of the ocean, we (I'm making some assumptions about my readers here) have to recognize that for the most part our culture has lost its traditional martial arts. So to us Asian M.A. seems exotic and enticing. But this is us orientalizaing something which to the Japanese is as mundane and anachronistic as that cowboy strutting around Texas.
I know that there is something deeply profound and illuminating to be found in the study of traditional martial arts, something which is difficult to express in words but which nevertheless makes it a worthwhile cultural investment. However I freely admit that I initiated my study of 武道 because it was exotic and foreign, and therefore interesting (to me). Most 日本人 would never give it that chance.
Japanese and Martial Arts - ghinzdra - 2009-02-18
Well the paradoxical thing about learning 忍術 is that by its very purpose it's meant to be a SECRET art . So if you merely HEARD about a teacher (not to mention he agrees to teach you something) etc.... you can be sure it's gaijin-friendly and it sucks. IF ninja still exist (and there is an on-going debate on their very existence) they work in the shadow and don't meddle with common people let alone those gross gaijins who should be expelled of this blessed country
.
Japanese and Martial Arts - rich_f - 2009-02-18
Yeah, see, I got into 合気道 not because it was some mystical MA stuff, but because it taught me two useful things:
1. How to throw people and pin them to the ground.
2. How to take a fall.
I don't ever use 1 in daily life. It's not really practical in my line of work. But I have friends who are in law enforcement and in mental health who use it daily to deal with, well, let's just say "unruly" clients. (It's fun to watch a 5th dan bring an unruly drunk down just by grabbing his thumbs without permanently injuring the drunk.)
But 2 is something that has saved my bacon a few times. Knowing how to take a breakfall or roll out of a fall is actually pretty useful.
But for the most part, I did it because it was fun.