Classical Japanese Reader and Essential Dictionary: Thoughts?

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Classical Japanese Reader and Essential Dictionary: Thoughts? - Miaow - 2009-02-16

Hello!

I am curious if anyone here has/has enjoyed this book. It's a book of classical Japanese stories and poems, with what appears to me extensive notes on the texts, and a dictionary of the most common words in classical Japanese literature at the end.

I'm curious as to how "classical" Japanese differs from modern Japanese. Would reading these stories be like reading something like Beowulf in English?

*Reading* Japanese is my focus, and this book intrigues me. It includes stories and poems.

From what I saw on Amazon's "look inside" feature, it appears all the kanji have furigana.

There is also a companion volume, "Classical Japanese: A Grammar"

I'm interested in any thoughts about and experiences with others here may have this book. It seems like it might be an interesting challenge to delve into this book now and then, as an augment to my current studying of Kanji and grammar.

~* Miaow *~

Classical Japanese Reader and Essential Dictionary: Thoughts? - Jarvik7 - 2009-02-16

Actually, the reader is the companion volume. You need to go through the first half of the grammar book before you'll understand anything. It's actually what I'm currently using to study classical and I recommend it. Just watch out, Amazon will screw you over and not send the answer key. I ended up getting my copy of the text free by complaining over the phone Big Grin

Classical is quite a bit different from modern, but you can learn to read it pretty quickly if you already have a decent grasp of modern. (It is easier than modern in many ways) As a bonus it very much improves your understanding of modern Japanese and why things are the way they are.

Classical Japanese Reader and Essential Dictionary: Thoughts? - Tobberoth - 2009-02-16

Sounds really interesting, I might have to look into that later.

Classical Japanese Reader and Essential Dictionary: Thoughts? - Jarvik7 - 2009-02-16

For extra fun and uselessness I'm also studying hentaigana & man'yougana, so I can read classical Japanese in the original brushwork instead of modern typesetting Big Grin

The last thing I read --> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jarvik/3285094123/

Classical Japanese Reader and Essential Dictionary: Thoughts? - KristinHolly - 2009-02-16

I used the Bungo Manual (which I found hard to follow at the time) and some things prepared by the professor the first time I took Classical Japanese. Professor Shirane's books weren't out yet, but they do sound good.

Jarvik, what are you using to study hentaigana, etc.?

Edit2: Miaow, have you read any classical Japanese literature or poetry in translation yet? Almost all of the famous works have been translated at least once. The translations and the translators' prefaces and notes might give you a feel for how the language and content is different. A lot of things are out in cheap paperback editions that are easy to find, but if you have access to a major library, you might want to look at one of the volumes of A Waka Anthology by Professor Edwin Cranston. He's translated selections of poetry and song from the earliest written materials in Japanese through the poems in the Tale of Genji, and it is easy to tell that he loves this poetry more than just about anything. The Japanese is romanized and set beside the English, and there are some notes about translation.

Classical Japanese Reader and Essential Dictionary: Thoughts? - Jarvik7 - 2009-02-17

If you're going to read any Japanese poetry (which most prose contains heaps of), forget about reading it in translation unless it's an academic book with copious footnotes. You lose about 90% of the meaning when it's in translation due to the loss of pillow words, cutting words, references to other famous poems, etc.

Kristin: I study hentaigana (etc) in a small reading circle with a researcher/author on the subject. We just study from photocopies of originals out of the text, with a small booklet that lists various brushwork examples to help us identify the kana. I don't know the name of the text, but it's all in Japanese (0 English).

Classical Japanese Reader and Essential Dictionary: Thoughts? - KristinHolly - 2009-02-17

I would still recommend reading translations. Especially if you can find things in the library, why not read everything you possibly can? You lose 100% of the meaning if you don't look at it at all, and good translations are a quick way to find out about things that you might just love reading in the original.

Prof. Cranston's commentary is just as long as the poems themselves, but it's fascinating in its own right. Hopefully it will come out in a more accessible paperback soon. The Tale of Genji is well worth reading, though long, and it's easy to find in translation. Royall Tyler's translation has very helpful notes and commentary. The Pillow Book of Sei Shonagon is also easy to find in abridged paperback translation; it might be a fun first piece to read.

If you want to just look at some texts and get a feel for how older Japanese is different, you might look at the UVA Japanese Text Initiative:
http://etext.virginia.edu/japanese/index.html

Classical Japanese Reader and Essential Dictionary: Thoughts? - sremvik - 2009-02-17

Interesting post. I have made a deck containing cards from sentences from Ise Monogatari, Hojoki and Taketori Monogatari. If anyone is interested I can make a google spreadsheet.

Classical Japanese Reader and Essential Dictionary: Thoughts? - phoenix - 2009-02-17

the guide I have to Classical Japanese, though technically not about Classical Japanese, is 'A descriptive grammar of Early Old Japanese Prose' by John R. Bentley, nice grammar though the guy is a bit too outspoken about Japanese as an Altaic Language in my opinion. But if you're interested in long range language comparison, and some of the oldest attested forms of the Japanese language it's a great book.

Whether it helps much actually reading Classical Japanese, I don't know. haha, I haven't read a lot of Classical Japanese since reading that grammar.

Classical Japanese Reader and Essential Dictionary: Thoughts? - Miaow - 2009-02-17

Jarvik7 Wrote:Actually, the reader is the companion volume. You need to go through the first half of the grammar book before you'll understand anything. It's actually what I'm currently using to study classical and I recommend it. Just watch out, Amazon will screw you over and not send the answer key. I ended up getting my copy of the text free by complaining over the phone

I saw your review! Did you ever get your answer key? If so, where did you get it? I noticed another reviewer mentioned he did get his answer key, so I'm wondering if you mistakenly received an open package? (I'd imagine since the book comes with a separate answer key, it would be shrinkwrapped into a package.)

Thanks for the reply! =^_^=

~*Miaow*~

Classical Japanese Reader and Essential Dictionary: Thoughts? - Jarvik7 - 2009-02-17

Miaow Wrote:
Jarvik7 Wrote:Actually, the reader is the companion volume. You need to go through the first half of the grammar book before you'll understand anything. It's actually what I'm currently using to study classical and I recommend it. Just watch out, Amazon will screw you over and not send the answer key. I ended up getting my copy of the text free by complaining over the phone
I saw your review! Did you ever get your answer key? If so, where did you get it? I noticed another reviewer mentioned he did get his answer key, so I'm wondering if you mistakenly received an open package? (I'd imagine since the book comes with a separate answer key, it would be shrinkwrapped into a package.)

Thanks for the reply! =^_^=

~*Miaow*~

I called the publisher and they shipped me a copy for free. It took over a month to get here though. I think it might have been the publisher's fault in the first place and not Amazon. All of the copies in my university bookstore were also missing answer keys.

Classical Japanese Reader and Essential Dictionary: Thoughts? - Jarvik7 - 2009-02-17

KristinHolly Wrote:Prof. Cranston's commentary is just as long as the poems themselves, but it's fascinating in its own right. Hopefully it will come out in a more accessible paperback soon. The Tale of Genji is well worth reading, though long, and it's easy to find in translation. Royall Tyler's translation has very helpful notes and commentary. The Pillow Book of Sei Shonagon is also easy to find in abridged paperback translation; it might be a fun first piece to read.

Those sound like academic books to me then Tongue

Shirane himself also has an anthology of pre-modern Japanese literature out with a lot of footnotes. I used it quite a bit when I was studying Japanese religious literature. Shirane is actually coming to my department in a bit. I should get him to sign my copy of the Classical Japanese grammar Tongue