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+--- Thread: Learning vs Reviewing in SRS (/thread-2587.html)
Learning vs Reviewing in SRS - kfmfe04 - 2009-02-15
Is there any way to set retain the learning order when I'm learning in Anki (or other SRS)?
I find that the most effective way for me to study seems to be: to study Jukugo in groups using a common Kanji. However, most of the SRS software I see doesn't distinguish between learning and reviewing.
The randomness and spacing in reviewing is nice, but it's detrimental to some styles of studying/learning for the first time.
If there are no other options, I guess I will have to maintain a list of vocabulary in order in Excel for studying purposes...
Learning vs Reviewing in SRS - nest0r - 2009-02-15
You could try using tags more extensively. Also, I believe Supermemo features 'knowledge branches' or something like that, I don't know if that's related.
Learning vs Reviewing in SRS - Tobberoth - 2009-02-15
SRS is more or less against the idea to study 熟語 grouped by kanji. According to the most common SRS theories, seeing something you need to learn too often is detrimental to long term memory. If you study jukugo with the same kanji for several days, you're reviewing that one kanji several times each day instead of spaced out. So if you add 本当 today and 当然 tomorrow, you'll be reviewing 当 too often.
Learning vs Reviewing in SRS - kfmfe04 - 2009-02-15
Yes, I understand that "pure SRS" is against this way of doing things.
However, I also believe that learning with as many "connections" as I can - associations through onyomi, kunyomi, related jukugo, and even hearing the word said on TV or seeing it on a street sign in Tokyo, helps me "own" the vocabulary, sometimes even better than through SRS.
One other thing I am trying to do is making the learning "more interesting" - when I see kanji in jukugo or sentence-context or grouped with similar jukugo, it makes the learning more enjoyable.
I guess I should've posted the title as "SRS burnout"... ...using SRS helped me tremendously for RTK1, but trying to use it for jukugo and grammar doesn't seem to be as appealing (or effective) for me...
One "new way" of studying that I may try is to grab a stack of textbooks I like (like 4 or 5 ) and study a little tiny bit out of each one every day (like interleaving) so I don't get bored...
Learning vs Reviewing in SRS - nest0r - 2009-02-15
I disagree (with Tobberoth). Appending my trail of thought here to our previous thread on the topic of spacing and redundancy, I feel that these little variations act as reinforcement. My big problems come from 'interference'--such as having words with too similar a meaning and too little context to differentiate them, or different kanji with identical readings learned in a close span of time, et cetera.
And of course, if you study the same cards in the same way, that would probably throw off the spacing effect or would simply be wasteful. I don't put enough scientific stock in the spacing theories to consider the mathematical and molecular mechanisms that have been speculated over to be set in stone as extrinsic constants, but I do think the logic is sound and try to stay within the basic guidelines as much as possible.
At any rate, I think there's definitely value to 'bunching' items, as KO did with their method and as others have emphasized in their own ways, but personally I think they're only of value when first studying cards, and then one should allow spacing to take over. But if one wanted to prolong this bunching without relying on a frequency list, et cetera, then certainly using active/inactive tagging could be useful, depending on how much one tried to trump the spacing algorithm. Apologies for being vague, I'm feeling lazy.
Learning vs Reviewing in SRS - woodwojr - 2009-02-15
nest0r is, according to the research, wrong (I posted some sources in another thread, too early in the morning to find them again right now); however, the key to understand is that the damage done to learning through overexposure is primarily in the form of time. If you review something today and the same thing tomorrow, your projected "forgetting date" will only be pushed out slightly, whereas if you'd reviewed at your projected forgetting date for the first review, you'd have a much longer projected interval of remembering for the same amount of review.
So while overexposure does damage your memorization process, the damage is not massive and is possible to estimate. When the projected benefits of risking overexposure outweigh the projected amount of time wasted by poorly-timed reviews of given material, go right ahead.
I recommend against it more based on the isolation of the 熟語.
~J
Learning vs Reviewing in SRS - nest0r - 2009-02-15
Woodwojr, I think you need to read those links again. ;p (Though simple logic should show you the way.)
Text to apply how you will... if you disagree with my interpretation, I guess the now common forum phrase 'agree to disagree' comes to mind:
http://www.supermemo.com/english/ol/ks.htm#Univocality http://www.supermemo.com/english/ol/ks.htm#Redundancy
The crux of our disagreement being, I think, the definition of 'overexposure'. I feel that one should be more flexible in realizing how subjective SRSing is, how much context and focus are involved in rendering items constructive or destructive in their interference. (Not to mention how much the self-grading process affects the timing of cards, as well as different interpretations on how to customize the software itself in regards to multipliers, et cetera.)
Learning vs Reviewing in SRS - resolve - 2009-02-15
If you see 3 cards in order and fail them, they will appear in the same order.
After you get them correct, the order is not guaranteed. Keeping the same order any longer would lead to weaker memories.
Learning vs Reviewing in SRS - Sebastian - 2009-02-15
kfmfe04 Wrote:Is there any way to set retain the learning order when I'm learning in Anki (or other SRS)?You can set Anki to show the cards in the same order they were created. That will work only for the first time you see them, so if you want to -more or less- keep the same order for a little longer, you can play with the intervals and rate all the card equally, so you can see te same bat at the same order before they get randomized. Don't pay too much attention to what other people say -some people can get a bit obsessive-compulsive about their methods-, just do whatever works for your.
Learning vs Reviewing in SRS - kazelee - 2009-02-15
nest0r Wrote:Text to apply how you will... if you disagree with my interpretation, I guess the now common forum phrase 'agree to disagree' comes to mind:Remember the good old days when people used to argue till the sun came up.
I blame Heroes for bringing this miserable phrase back from the grave. Disagree? I dare you.
Learning vs Reviewing in SRS - nest0r - 2009-02-15
Heroes is so racist, I don't watch it. That's the kind of show Hitler would watch.