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Grammar SRS project - 200 Essential Japanese Expressions - chamcham - 2009-02-08
Hello,
Since people have already taken it upon themselves
to SRS Understanding Basic Japanese Grammar (UBJG),
I have decided to start a project and SRS the 2 books,
which I feel are the best books to read after finishing UBJG.
They include:
どんなときどう使う日本語表現文型200
200 Essential Japanese Expressions: A Guide to Correct Usage of Key Sentence Patterns (ISBN: )
http://www.thejapanshop.com/product.php?productid=16245
http://bookweb.kinokuniya.co.jp/guest/cgi-bin/wshoseaohb.cgi?KEYWORD=%34-%37%35%37%34-%30%31%37%34-%34&AREA=02
どんな時どう使う日本語表現文型500
500 Essential Japanese Expressions: A Guide to Correct Usage of Key Sentence Patterns (ISBN
http://www.thejapanshop.com/product.php?productid=16246&cat=0&page=1
http://bookweb.kinokuniya.co.jp/guest/cgi-bin/wshoseaohb.cgi?KEYWORD=%34-%38%37%32%33%34-%35%38%39-%34&AREA=02
Like UBJG, both books are from ALC press and the quality is outstanding. These 3 books are the only grammar texts you'll ever need.
The book with 200 patterns has a fair amount of overlap with UBJG, but goes well beyond it. A key feature is the explanation of grammar in both English AND Japanese.
It is somewhat between JLPT 2 and JLPT 3.
The 500 expressions book is a continuation and goes even further by providing similar grammar patterns(in Japanese!) for each expression(and the book itself is all Japanese). It roughly covers JLPT 1 and 2 grammar (and much more).
I have created an Anki file for the 200 Essential Expressions book.
It simply contains the grammar pattern on one side, and the section/page number on the other side.
Link:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DAZFF6W1
The idea is that you'll have the book with you and reference the sentences and explanations as you're studying.
Together, both books have 700 grammar patterns and are pretty much all the grammar you'll ever need to know.
So just review grammar randomly every day and read things at your own pace. The reviews will keep you aware of the grammar patterns. Reading japanese will provide the context and you will just encounter many patterns over time.
Anyway, hope this helps.
Grammar SRS project - 200 Essential Japanese Expressions - Nuriko - 2009-02-08
Thanks for sharing this with us!
Grammar SRS project - 200 Essential Japanese Expressions - stoked - 2009-02-08
Amazing, bookmarked. Thanks!
Grammar SRS project - 200 Essential Japanese Expressions - Evil_Dragon - 2009-02-09
Thanks for your effort! This will come in handy.
Grammar SRS project - 200 Essential Japanese Expressions - RobotsAnger - 2009-02-09
Seems interesting. *bookmarks for when finishing RTK*
Grammar SRS project - 200 Essential Japanese Expressions - ghinzdra - 2009-02-09
I'm always thankful to anyone willing to share some of his work so don't take it too hard.... but I cannot help wondering about the goal of your method and the fact that you don't include the sentences exemple :
- it's extremely unhandy to have to consult the book at each session and look for each piece of information ....You lose a precious time flipping over the pages . Time is money .
- the more time goes by, the bigger your stack of book becomes . With this method are you expected to bring a library on your back everywhere you go ?it s all the more uncomfortable that I bet big money that most of us are way more likely than the average guy to move out to another country once in a while (japan for instance
) . Eventually the SRS is meant to subsitute your book , vampirizing it so that you might discard it . This dimension is stressed by the web interface . As far as I'm concerned I've already discarded KO2001 as I've been through both books with anki, the kanzen master 2kyuu book is also doomed at short term as I intend to sell it anytime and even if keigo book will have a longer life expectancy it doesn't mean that it will live forever on my book shelves....all of them are in my anki file , front to back and as soon as they're mastered they're as good as dead .If i can coin an expression space and books are money too....I see one good point though in your idea : obviously the copyright is much more protected because without the book the file is almost useless . But it's a real tiny advantage for the respectful ,law-abider people who buy the book anyway.
Grammar SRS project - 200 Essential Japanese Expressions - skinnyneo - 2009-02-09
I used the 200 expression book when I was studying abroad and thought it was really good. Very short and to the point sentences, and good clear explanations.
ghinzdra-I see what your saying, but I think that whenever you begin you almost have no choice but to use a book to reference. I'm sure you referenced your KO2001 book several times when entering the information into Anki before discarding it. I think what chamcham here has done is actually saved time for those who will want to use the 200 and 500 EJE books as now they won't have to enter the information into Anki. Then of course once somebody has finished the books they are probably more then likely going to no longer carry them around and just have the SRS on the go. I don't think anybody was suggesting to always carry around the books.
Just my 2 cents tho.
DL'ing this once I'm gotta school!
Grammar SRS project - 200 Essential Japanese Expressions - ghinzdra - 2009-02-09
yeah but my point is : once I ve entered the data into anki I discarded the book.
You say "Then of course once somebody has finished the books they are probably more then likely going to no longer carry them around and just have the SRS on the go." how could you possibily do that ? you don't intend to simply review grammatical structure do you ? so you need the sentences examples . Unfortunately they're in your book . So you're compelled to carry it around ...
Grammar SRS project - 200 Essential Japanese Expressions - zwarte_kat - 2009-02-09
This sounds good, but what i don't understand is how to use this with anki.
I'll give it a shot:
After starting Review in Anki:
1 one of the grammer points comes up, for example: 〜間
2 I guess what this grammer point's function is
3 look it up in the book
4 If i am right, I will answer to Anki that I remember this fact. If I am wrong, I study the sentences, and answer to Anki that I am wrong
5 next grammar point
Is this what you meant chamcham?
Grammar SRS project - 200 Essential Japanese Expressions - duder - 2009-02-09
wait - i think i got it- its a scheduler for when you should re-lookup the grammar point.
while i join the others in thanking that you shared this, i also join the chorus of those that think this is not all that well thought out.
you know you could have inserted sentences from jgram or something -
i used my grammar book by scanning sample sentences and copying and pasting grammar notes in it.
if you actually want to learn grammar you have to learn to memorize example sentences that act as an example for that particular point. after you have a sentence at least somewhat memorized, you will then be able to get the nuance that the grammar dictionary discusses.
having context will really help drive a point home
Grammar SRS project - 200 Essential Japanese Expressions - chamcham - 2009-02-09
Thanks for all your comments.
For some image previews of each book, go here and click on "View ALL detailed images"
200 Expressions
http://www.thejapanshop.com/product.php?productid=16245&cat=0&page=1
500 Expressions
http://www.thejapanshop.com/product.php?productid=16246&cat=0&page=1
The 200 expressions book itself is only 240 or so pages and is very light. Calling it a "library" is a bit excessive. The book is maybe 1 or 2 pounds. Alternatively, you can just scan your own copy of the book and save it on your computer... :-)
If you're reviewing 1 to 10 grammar patterns a day, flipping to the correct page will hardly take much time from your day. The exact page number for every pattern is in the Anki file. You can even fit it in a review during a lunch break.
The idea is to consistently study a few random grammar patterns daily and then put the book down and get on with your day. Throughout the week, just read Japanese as you normally would and if you come across patterns from recent reviews, then GREAT. Otherwise, no big deal. Let's the SRS manage the grammar reviews and figure out which patterns are the most difficullt to remember.
When people talk about "context", you'll get the context from reading books, articles, light novels, etc. Getting context from a textbook is to be avoided IMHO. Use the textbook for understanding the patterns. But use real Japanese books, media, etc to see the grammar "in action".
Obviously, for legal reasons, I didn't copy the sentences from the book. Also, the book lists 4-6 sentences for each pattern. Then, in 1 or 2 short paragraphs it compares and contrasts the nuances across ALL the sentences as a whole(one of the reason why I love the 200 expressions book). So it's really to your benefit to have the book (either in physical or electronic form).
Lastly, the anki file is meant to complement the book, not replace it.
Grammar SRS project - 200 Essential Japanese Expressions - chamcham - 2009-02-22
OK. Hope I didn't go overboard in that last comment.
Anyway, just wanted to follow up.
I'm really loving this style of learning. I'm doing 5 grammar points a day and it takes me 30 minutes max(usually 15-25 mins). Very easy and no stress at all. I wish I had done it earlier.
I'm at the level where I can read most of the sentences in the book without needing a dictionary (and even in cases, where I don't know the definition, I can guess it from the kanji thanks to Heisig and RevTK :-)
Sometimes I do it:
By waking up in the morning 30-45 min earlier
During Lunch time at work
In the evening before dinner
I would really encourage people to do something similar with whatever grammar books these are using.
Either:
Type all info and sentences into your SRS (more time consuming, but you won't have to carry any books)
OR
Just type the expressions and page numbers(and carry the book along)
It's hardly a time committment and the patterns are definitely sinking in(without much effort) as I read more things in Japanese.
To everyone working hard on their grammar studies, good luck.
Grammar SRS project - 200 Essential Japanese Expressions - nest0r - 2009-02-22
chamcham Wrote:OK. Hope I didn't go overboard in that last comment.Totally off topic, but you deleted the other thread--I think できましたら meant 'when you've completed', right?
Anyway, just wanted to follow up.
Grammar SRS project - 200 Essential Japanese Expressions - zwarte_kat - 2009-02-22
Hmm, maybe it's your positive attitude, but somehow you convinced me to try it out.
Nowadays everybody (including me) seems to be so hungry for pre-made sentences decks and full automation of learning tools. Somehow this "simply read it from the book with a splash of Anki" thing seems attractive to me.
As soon as I have dug myself up from under a huge RevTK expired pile (did the last 1000 in 10 days, then went a weekend out snowboarding..oops..), I will skim through UBJG. Then I'll get this book, which sounded really interesting to me in the first place, and use your deck. So thanks.
Grammar SRS project - 200 Essential Japanese Expressions - hotkiller123 - 2009-02-22
Quick question:
Does the second book contain all the grammar of the first and is the second book a lot harder??
Grammar SRS project - 200 Essential Japanese Expressions - nest0r - 2009-02-22
For the grammar points in Japanese the Manga Way (and stuff from Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar), all I did was put the sentences into Anki along with notes for the answer side explaining the relevant sections of the sentence. One thing I'm happy with in that regard, is if I'm ever iffy on a point I come across elsewhere when deconstructing sentences, I just search my main Anki deck and look it up that way, instead of flipping through the book.
Grammar SRS project - 200 Essential Japanese Expressions - ghinzdra - 2009-02-22
> hotkiller :
secund book is only about 2Kyuu & 1kyuu grammar point . So it can't be anything but harder . It's real investment .It's worth it on the long run.Especially if you're going for taking 2kyuu 1Kyuu in a row.
anyone interested into typing up the "500 book" sentences for real to put into anki?
Grammar SRS project - 200 Essential Japanese Expressions - chamcham - 2009-06-21
Just an update.
I'm now going through the book in order and typing the sentences for each point in Japanese. I'm only about to do 2-3 chapters per week. So it will likely take me 2-3 months to finish my Anki deck for this book.
I will notify everyone when I'm done.
Thanks.
P.S. Would really appreciate if people could work on the 500 expressions book. Especially if it could be done by the time I finish off SRSing this 200 expressions book.