help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ

help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - Printable Version

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help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - nwatkins - 2009-02-06

悲しい　-> 悲しく
曇り　-> 曇ったん

It seems as though 悲しい is conjugated in a similar way to て form in order to combine as as two adjectives, with the next, being cloudy. If this is the case, then is it a sloppy -て　form? Is this close?

And, after a lot of searching, I haven't been able to find what the -ったん conjugation of 曇り(くもり）means. Am I dissecting this correct? And what advice do people have for finding answers to questions like this, which i hope the community can help with.

Thanks!
Noah

help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - Smackle - 2009-02-06

悲しいー>悲しく　Adjective -> Adverb
曇るー>曇った Past tense verb
んだ=のだ Explaining/emphasis

help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - QuackingShoe - 2009-02-06

You might consider giving a quick passover through something like http://www.guidetojapanese.com , because it gives enough information to at least recognize most of these basic forms (if not fully understand them).

Also, for future things... A lot of people recommend the Dictionary of () Japanese Grammar series (Basic, Intermediate, Advanced?) as reference material. Alternatively, google for examples of usage (obviously this is going to require a certain ability to understand Japanese in general), and for any explicit explanations.

help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - nwatkins - 2009-02-06

Thanks, I still have a couple issues with this, though.

悲しいー>悲しく　Adjective -> Adverb: Awesome, found this on Tae Kim. Very clear.

曇るー>曇った Past tense verb
-- I was interested in 曇り (くもり） the noun: cloudy, according to Jim Breen's.
Am I mistaken about something here?

んだ=のだ Explaining/emphasis: This also makes sense, just found it on Tae Kim as well.

The real kicker is from the audio I am listening to. So, if I have this correct the full sentence would be:

かなしくくもったんだ。

The issue I have is that when I am listening to the audio it is absolutely clear that only one く is said between the two words. Is this just a sloppy or informal thing?

Thanks again!

help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - nwatkins - 2009-02-06

Sorry, cleared up the 曇り/曇る thing. The audio discrepency is still a major kicker for me.

help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - Smackle - 2009-02-06

When verbs are turned into that form, they can become nouns.
晴れ is a close example from 晴れる

help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - nwatkins - 2009-02-06

Not sure of your context. Are you referring to the merge of the くく sound into a single く　in the audio for the sentence かなしくくもったんだ。 ?

help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - Smackle - 2009-02-06

I was talking about 曇り

help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - nwatkins - 2009-02-06

Ahh...yeh, I immediately realized my failed mistake of checking out everything in my dictionary. Any idea on the audio? Maybe it's so informal (in a song) that the sounds bleed together in an assuming way?

help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - QuackingShoe - 2009-02-06

nwatkins Wrote:The issue I have is that when I am listening to the audio it is absolutely clear that only one く is said between the two words. Is this just a sloppy or informal thing?

This is something you just have to get used to in time. Many 'i' and 'u' sounds are softened in speech, which can make the consonants sounds start to seem to blend together. Most cases are not informal or lazy, and in fact, one would sound weird not speaking this way. (As for when they're softened, there are rules to it, but they're not worth learning, since you do get used to it through exposure.)
The く thing in particular is something they're aware of as well, and it shows itself in how occasionally kanji compounds will turn a く into a っ before another 'k' sound.

help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - Smackle - 2009-02-06

Are you hearing it right? Many people will not make the う in　く strong

help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - nwatkins - 2009-02-06

There is no mistake that only a single く is said with an obvious う sound. If the first く sound is cut short may take some more refined ears. Assuming it is a single く whats the verdict? Otherwise I could buy that my ears are failing me.

help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - Thora - 2009-02-06

any chance it's 悲しく思った？

help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - Smackle - 2009-02-06

It is hard to say kmotta but easy to say kanashik. Do you understand? If く is in the beginning, it is stronger than one at the middle or end.

help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - nwatkins - 2009-02-06

Hrm...don't think so:

Full context:

君と僕の夜空が悲しく曇ったんだ

help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - nwatkins - 2009-02-06

Smackle: Yeh, i get it. Thanks a lot.

Thanks guys...uh, soo many hurdles Smile

help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - QuackingShoe - 2009-02-06

Like I said... they get softened. い and う preceded and followed by voiceless consonants are frequently subject to this. くく would qualify. However, the second く would not be softened as it's followed by も, which is voiced.

Edit: Also, what Smackle said, which is essentially the same thing.

help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - Smackle - 2009-02-06

QuackingShoe Wrote:Edit: Also, what Smackle said, which is essentially the same thing.

I do not know what "voiced" and "voiceless" means, so I could not explain it that way.

help with: 悲しく曇ったんだ - QuackingShoe - 2009-02-06

I wasn't criticizing or anything, you guys just all posted while I was typing, so I edited to try and show I agreed with you (mostly - it actually doesn't matter where in a word the mora is).