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Mnemonics for the Japanese readings - AmberUK - 2009-01-26
Hiya
I am wondering why some of the long vowel sounds such as koo (to freeze) and kou (traffic) have been done this way? Why are they not done as ko (child) + o (a tail) and ko (a child) + u (hare)? Why have another set to learn? It seems to add quite a bit extra to learn or is there a reason for this?
thanks
amber
Mnemonics for the Japanese readings - AmberUK - 2009-01-27
this method of having the long vowel section seems to add an extra 31 thing to learn (with 80 for the other kana) so it seems to make this task alot harder.
Mnemonics for the Japanese readings - EnjukuBlack - 2009-01-27
I can't even begin to imagine what you're asking here.
Mnemonics for the Japanese readings - AmberUK - 2009-01-27
which bit? ;-)
I am trying to work out why there are two ways to split up the long vowel sounds.
why the extra learning?
(its part 2 of book 2)
Mnemonics for the Japanese readings - QuackingShoe - 2009-01-27
Ah, having cracked RTK2, this finally makes sense.
As for that, I'm not privy to any reasoning. I suppose so there were fewer elements to work with in any given mnemonic.
I think you should just ignore that entire section, though...
But if you're going to do it, I don't see any reason why you couldn't do it the way you suggest instead. It's all arbitrary anyway.
Mnemonics for the Japanese readings - AmberUK - 2009-01-27
well I haven't actually finished RTK1. But I have been having problems with remembering vocab for my night course so was looking for a method to use. And this seemed like a good idea as little trick. I think its one of those things that is going to be alot of work at first but might pay off.
Mnemonics for the Japanese readings - yukamina - 2009-01-27
AmberUK Wrote:HiyaHave been done what way? I don't understand. こお is こ+お and こう is こ+う.
I am wondering why some of the long vowel sounds such as koo (to freeze) and kou (traffic) have been done this way? Why are they not done as ko (child) + o (a tail) and ko (a child) + u (hare)? Why have another set to learn? It seems to add quite a bit extra to learn or is there a reason for this?
thanks
amber
Another set of what?
Mnemonics for the Japanese readings - AmberUK - 2009-01-27
this is hard to explain without the book.
the book has 4 sets of phonemes:
primary (total 45) - normal kana eg a, ko, ta etc
voiced (total 18) - ga, zu, de etc
long vowels (total 31) - oo, koo, sei, too, mou etc
diphthongs (total 27) - kyo, cha, ja etc
my problem is why have the long vowels, why not just use the other combinations to make them?
Mnemonics for the Japanese readings - pm215 - 2009-01-27
To throw out a completely random guess, perhaps if you don't have a different image for the long vowels there's a risk that you accidentally forget the bit of your image/mnemonic which is the separate vowel? (and since to English ears [kana]kou[/kana] and [kana]ko[/kana] are very similar you probably wouldn't notice your error.)
I've never done anything with RTK2 (though I have a copy) so I dunno whether this is a real issue.
Mnemonics for the Japanese readings - AmberUK - 2009-01-27
I think this answers my question. As I am using it to remember spelling I probably can dump them then.
Thanks!
Mnemonics for the Japanese readings - QuackingShoe - 2009-01-27
In RTK2, Heisig encouraged you to use a selection of kanji with readings (one kanji for each possible sound, including long vowels, in Japanese), and use those kanji as a mnemonic device to remember the readings of unrelated kun'yomi words. That's what she's talking about, and she's wondering why he advised using a number of kanji with long vowels as mnemonic devices instead of limiting the set and using two kanji to represent a single long sound.
@AmberUK,
This is all just a thing that Heisig came up with. It doesn't have anything to do with Japanese, so the 'why' doesn't matter. You can do whatever you want with the system. If you want to drop the long vowels, drop them. As he mentions in the section, he doesn't even intend for you to use the thing very often, just a crutch if you really have trouble with a word. He doesn't even intend for, in a single word, for you to come up with a mnemonic for each syllable. Maybe you're having trouble with the word 現れる (who doesn't at first? ;o). Maybe all you need is some way to remember that あら comes first, and you can remember the rest easily without further mnemonic aid. There's no reason to introduce mnemonics for everything else.
This is, from what I can tell through reading it, his intention.
Mnemonics for the Japanese readings - AmberUK - 2009-01-27
QuackingShoe,
You explained much better than I did, thanks. I know its a crutch. But I am at that horrible stage where lots of vocab/grammar is being added (via course using japanese for busy people II - yerk) and unlike in book 1 where you build on previous bits of vocab/grammar it seems to introduce stuff just to say it has. Consequentially I have vocab/grammar that I am trying to add also but its taking soooooo long to find any useful sentences and sometimes you just do add words you don't use much and so need a memory aid. Funnily if I never used words like iku, taberu again I don't think I would forget them but then they are drilled into your brain from day one. Other words seem to just get dumped in your learning list and not used so much. I would rather do it via reading much even kids books are so slow atm I haven't finished one (and I would like to know what happens to the cat). I think I am at that horrible stage where I am not newbie but not advanced enough to be able to just read stuff. Hopefully that next just is coming soon!
hugs
amber