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"The Illogic of U.S. Foreign Language Education" - alyks - 2009-01-23

playadom Wrote:
musigny Wrote:It's true but if the parents were in the same exact situation/environment as the children with the same psychological outlook, wouldn't they yield almost the same results? AJATT
The adults won't have 100% A[whatever language]ATT going on -- all the processes in their brains will be carried out in their native language. Children don't have a language in which to analyze their [soon-to-be] native language(s).
You don't "think" in a language. You think and convert it to a language. This process is not exclusive to your native language.

"The Illogic of U.S. Foreign Language Education" - kazelee - 2009-01-23

alyks Wrote:
playadom Wrote:
musigny Wrote:It's true but if the parents were in the same exact situation/environment as the children with the same psychological outlook, wouldn't they yield almost the same results? AJATT
The adults won't have 100% A[whatever language]ATT going on -- all the processes in their brains will be carried out in their native language. Children don't have a language in which to analyze their [soon-to-be] native language(s).
You don't "think" in a language. You think and convert it to a language. This process is not exclusive to your native language.
You forgot to snap your finger and roll your neck when typing that Cool

"The Illogic of U.S. Foreign Language Education" - woodwojr - 2009-01-23

alyks Wrote:You don't "think" in a language. You think and convert it to a language.
Unless you're speaking of processes that precede what we refer to as consciousness, your statement is directly at odds with my subjective experience.

Also some studies I believe I've seen, but I don't have time to find them right now.

~J

"The Illogic of U.S. Foreign Language Education" - kazelee - 2009-01-23

You forgot the "talk to the hand." Cool

"The Illogic of U.S. Foreign Language Education" - kazelee - 2009-01-23

musigny Wrote:Actually a seven year-old who were to move abroad would have already had more than 30K+ hours of immersion in their native language. I would argue the difference between the child and adult are more psychological than anything as I explained previously.

I have many years speaking Japanese and speak very fluently. I couldn't speak at the speed I do with a conversion going on. For me, conversion only goes on when I am speaking in a field that I haven't spoken in before. Conversely, I am in a technical field, there are areas where the conversion is the reverse because I acquired my knowlege firstly in a Japanese context.
You have a though, you attach a readily available chunk of words to that thought. Otherwise you are speaking without thinking which is considered a form of illness. I think this is what Alysk Tongue is sayings.

"The Illogic of U.S. Foreign Language Education" - playadom - 2009-01-23

alyks Wrote:
playadom Wrote:
musigny Wrote:It's true but if the parents were in the same exact situation/environment as the children with the same psychological outlook, wouldn't they yield almost the same results? AJATT
The adults won't have 100% A[whatever language]ATT going on -- all the processes in their brains will be carried out in their native language. Children don't have a language in which to analyze their [soon-to-be] native language(s).
You don't "think" in a language. You think and convert it to a language. This process is not exclusive to your native language.
Have you ever tried thinking without having any language skills at all? I agree with you somewhat, but a "computer" without an "operating system" isn't the most useful thing out there.

"The Illogic of U.S. Foreign Language Education" - alyks - 2009-01-23

You do not think using a language. You think and form thoughts, then you attach a language to it, in your head or otherwise.

Does language give you the tools to form more complex thoughts? Sure. Does language affect your thinking? Maybe. But the base is thoughts come before language, and the language is used to express your thoughts.

"The Illogic of U.S. Foreign Language Education" - kazelee - 2009-01-23

musigny Wrote:
kazelee Wrote:You have a though, you attach a readily available chunk of words to that thought. Otherwise you are speaking without thinking which is considered a form of illness. I think this is what Alysk Tongue is sayings.
Here is what Alysk said, "...all the processes in [adult's] brains will be carried out in their native language."
Sure about that?

I think you might have read a misquote.

playadom Wrote:The adults won't have 100% A[whatever language]ATT going on -- all the processes in their brains will be carried out in their native language. Children don't have a language in which to analyze their [soon-to-be] native language(s).
alyks Wrote:You don't "think" in a language. You think and convert it to a language. This process is not exclusive to your native language.
and

alyks Wrote:You don't "think" in a language. You think and convert it to a language. This process is not exclusive to your native language.

Does language give you the tools to form more complex thoughts? Sure. Does language affect your thinking? Maybe. But the base is thoughts come before language, and the language is used to express your thoughts.
Unless these two are really one in the same :O

"The Illogic of U.S. Foreign Language Education" - musigny - 2009-01-23

You're right I did mis-assign the quotation. Thanks for pointing it out.

"The Illogic of U.S. Foreign Language Education" - Thora - 2009-01-24

alyks Wrote:You do not think using a language. You think and form thoughts, then you attach a language to it, in your head or otherwise.

Does language give you the tools to form more complex thoughts? Sure. Does language affect your thinking? Maybe. But the base is thoughts come before language, and the language is used to express your thoughts.
I wouldn't be so dismissive...this remains one of the big (interdisciplinary) debates. It's not so black and white.