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Grammar and vocab question - Daizumi - 2009-01-13
Hi Guys,
I have been working on a translating a Japanese text, and I come across two things that I can't really find the answer to
1. What is the difference between 払う and 支払う?
2. There is one sentence that I can't translate fully thanks to the ending. Here it is in full.
頭痛がしたり咳が出たりして、ちょっとかぜ気味だなと思ったときに、薬局でかぜ薬を買う人は多いが、わざわざ病院へ行く人は少ないのではなかろうか。
So what does that whole のではなかろうか thing mean?
3. Come to thing of it, in the above I also can't really see why there is a な between かぜ気味だ and と思った. What is the な for?
Any help much appreciated!
Daniel
Grammar and vocab question - QuackingShoe - 2009-01-13
1. As far as I know, 支払う is more like 'pay off,' like bills and things. 払う is more general, and also means brush, etc.
2. では is the usual thing, なかる is like an old ない, opposite ある. なかろう would be opposite あろう, which are used in a presumptive capacity and.. so basically ではなかろう is like saying じゃないだろう. It's just kindof archaic.
3. な is a reflective sentence final particle. Sentence final particles pop up in quotations mid-sentence a lot. So it's like "When you're thinking 'It feels a bit like a cold..'"
Grammar and vocab question - Daizumi - 2009-01-13
Hey thanks a lot. Those were all very clear (and fast!) answers.
If you don't mind, I've got some more. Which basically sucks, since the book (and my degree of understanding) started of very well. But all of a sudden the grammar explanations become less and less. So now I have: (same text btw)
4. しかし、そんなときでも病院に行ったほうが特なのである。というのも、薬局で販売している薬には消費税がかかっているが、。。。etc
My question lies with the というも. Since what's following is basically and argument to what was stated in the previous sentence, could it be translated with something like 'for one..' as in 'Its best to go to the hospital for a cold as well. For one, the pharmacist charges you VATs...' etcetera. I guess this is more like an English question, since I kinda get the gist of what というのも is supposed to mean, but with my English I can't find the proper translation.
5. また保険の関係で自分で支払う分も少なくてすみ。
I know 済む which can mean to escape or to be over or something (the original text is hiragana as above so I'm not sure) so would that make this sentence
'Also, thanks to insurance the part you have to pay yourself will end up lower too.'
Or something?
6. Now I'm really getting angry since in one chapter I moved from 'being able to translate most without dictionary' to 'having no clue even with a dictionary'.
さらに薬そのものについて言うならば、医療用薬品に含まれる有効成分は、薬局で買う薬に比べて倍以上であるケースが多く、よく効く。
Actually now I'm writing it down slowly it makes more sense, but I still don't get the first part:
薬そのものについて言うならば
At all. What does 薬そのもの joined together mean; and the について言うならば combination I have never seen before. Some kind of idiom?
And then the last part, even though I'd understand all the separate parts, do not make sense to me either:
薬局で買う薬に比べて倍以上であるケースが多く
I guess I do not properly understand 倍以上...
Grammar and vocab question - pm215 - 2009-01-13
Daizumi Wrote:6. Now I'm really getting angry since in one chapter I moved from 'being able to translate most without dictionary' to 'having no clue even with a dictionary'.Grammar's like that -- much harder to disentangle and look up than vocab. I'm reminded of a quote from somebody to the effect of "Learn one verb rather than ten nouns. Learn one adverb rather than ten verbs. Learn one grammar item rather than ten adverbs."...
Quote:さらに薬そのものについて言うならば、医療用薬品に含まれる有効成分は、薬局で買う薬に比べて倍以上であるケースが多く、よく効く。To break it down:
Actually now I'm writing it down slowly it makes more sense, but I still don't get the first part:
薬そのものについて言うならば
At all. What does 薬そのもの joined together mean; and the について言うならば combination I have never seen before. Some kind of idiom?
Xそのもの for some noun means "the very thing, X itself".
について is fairly basic grammar meaning "about, regarding"
言うならば means about the same thing as 言えば
so something like "and if we consider the medicine itself".
Quote:And then the last part, even though I'd understand all the separate parts, do not make sense to me either:倍 double + 以上 more than => "more than double, more than twice". (Exactly what is more than double is not specified in this subordinate clause...)
薬局で買う薬に比べて倍以上であるケースが多く
I guess I do not properly understand 倍以上...
Grammar and vocab question - albion - 2009-01-13
1.
支払う is a little more formal than 払う, as well.
2.
Sometimes the end of だろう gets joined to the end of what comes before (only other example I can think of is よかろう or 言ったろう).
4.
というのも（というのは） is stating the reasoning for what was said before. So just 'because'?
5.
'[The situation] will end/be concluded with how much you have to pay yourself being less.'
6.
薬そのもの＝ the medicine itself [that you get in hospitals].
'If you talk about the medicine itself'. I don't know if it's an idiom or not (although 言うならば does get 15 million Google hits).
倍, on its own, means twice as much. So over twice as much [active ingredients] in hospital meds compared with that you can buy at the chemist.
Grammar and vocab question - QuackingShoe - 2009-01-13
4. と言うのも means something basically like 'because,' but that's.. pretty loose. It makes some sense if you think about it literally. Like, "Saying that thing and also, etc." Like "I've made this statement, and here also is another way of saying it (with more information and explanation on particulars). At least that's how I think of it - it fits into a general way the Japanese have of expressing themselves.
5. That's how I would look at it. I'm not sure what you mean about escaping or being over something, but your actual translation of 'end up' seems accurate to me.
6 was answered! Although I think it's clear the thing that's double is the 有効成分, since that's the topic.
Grammar and vocab question - pm215 - 2009-01-13
QuackingShoe Wrote:6 was answered! Although I think it's clear the thing that's double is the 有効成分, since that's the topic.Sure. I was just implying that if you try to translate the sub-clause alone it's likely to come out a bit odd as a result.