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+--- Thread: Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? (/thread-2362.html)
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - Virtua_Leaf - 2009-01-02
The desire to make the move to Japan seems to grow everyday. Seems extremely complex and impossible, but at the same time you only live once, right? May as well try to fulfill my dream as early as possible?
My Japanese really has to improve before I even think of moving, but it'd be cool to know about this stuff in advance.
There are a few barriers for me, ie. I'm 18, never lived on my own, don't have a passport, reluctant parent(s) etc etc... yeah, any advice you can give? Magic words to make things all work out?
Cheers,
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - kazelee - 2009-01-02
Virtua_Leaf Wrote:The desire to make the move to Japan seems to grow everyday. Seems extremely complex and impossible, but at the same time you only live once, right? May as well try to fulfill my dream as early as possible?Eat more beef!
My Japanese really has to improve before I even think of moving, but it'd be cool to know about this stuff in advance.
There are a few barriers for me, ie. I'm 18, never lived on my own, don't have a passport, reluctant parent(s) etc etc... yeah, any advice you can give? Magic words to make things all work out?
Cheers,
Sorry it's all I've got.
I too am curious as to how to go about this.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - pm215 - 2009-01-02
One of the key magic words here is "visa". You can't get into the country without one, and you can't stay for long unless you have one of the type which lets you stay. To stay you have to be doing something in particular within the boundaries of that visa, and usually you have to have this sorted out before you can get the visa. (For example, there's a 'pre-college visa' which you can use to stay in the country to study at a Japanese language school; to get the visa you have to prove that you have a place at the school. Similarly for the kind of visa for studying at university.) Only some kinds of visa let you actually work in Japan, and your Japanese employer has to be willing to help you get the visa, as I understand it (no doubt somebody with actual experience here will fill in the details).
So basically one important thing you need to do is:
* read the list of visa categories at http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/04.html
* work out what you could be doing (or want to be doing!) in Japan which actually fits into one of these categories
* find out what the detailed conditions are you have to meet (eg some of the 'work' categories they really want you to have a university degree, I think)
Some of this also depends on what funding you have -- if you can afford to go to Japan to study rather than needing to actually work to fund yourself this is in some ways easier (wider choice of visas, for example).
As for the '18, reluctant parents' bit -- what you need is a Plan, ie to turn your vague "I want to be in Japan" desires into something that says you've thought about this, you've considered funding issues, you've thought about how it fits in with whatever your career or further education plans and situation are, etc etc. I'd also suggest including in your Plan some sort of "do X for six months and then perhaps come back/decide then/whatever" idea. That way if you get there and do hate it you can always say "well it was only a short term thing anyway" and make use of your preprepared escape hatch...
In some ways starting earlier is easier -- you don't have a whole life/career/whatever in the place you're currently living.
If you can stomach teaching English then (a) this is quite popular and (b) you should investigate the Jet programme.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - Hashiriya - 2009-01-02
18? perfect! save up for a ticket... find a rich japanese woman and settle down...
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - oregum - 2009-01-02
1)If money is no problem, buy a ticket and move. Check out something like Sakura house for living arrangements, at least until you find something better.
2)If you have a bachelor's degree (any will do) do a google search for teaching English and apply for the program that fits you best. Get accepted and move, in a year or so after the contract is up, find a better job.
3)If you are in college/university and have good grades, apply for a foreign exchange program. (You can apply for a study abroad as well, but they are usually double the price.) If your school doesn't offer one, do a google search.
A one year long study abroad program is 30,000 (plus 5-10,000 personal expenses). A one year Foreign exchange is 15,000 (plus 5-10,000 personal expenses). The amount may seem like a lot, however, if you are student with good grades it is not.
This is where grades, financial aid, scholarships come into play. Some schools allow you to apply part or all of financial aid toward foreign exchange/study abroad. So if you do foreign exchange and get a few scholarships and some financial aid you can go for free. Think about how much an US college tuition is, and compare that to the 20-25,000 cost of foreign exchange. If your parents are paying tell them it'll cost the same or be cheaper, plus you can get college credit there.
Scholarships like Gilman ($4000) and FreemanAsia ($8000) are some of the better ones.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - tibul - 2009-01-02
nest0r Wrote:Ooh, good thread. Can't believe we didn't already have one like this here.... more information please!Nope any degree will do, which pretty much destroys any chance i had with going that route
So you don't even need a teaching-oriented degree to teach English in Japan?
So now im going the way of becoming fluent in Japanese and aiming for a IT Job in Japan.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - Jarvik7 - 2009-01-02
pm215 Wrote:One of the key magic words here is "visa". You can't get into the country without one, and you can't stay for long unless you have one of the type which lets you stay.Most modernized countries have visa waiver agreements with Japan in which you don't need a visa to enter Japan for a period of 2 weeks to 6 months (depending on the country).
Quote:If you can stomach teaching English then (a) this is quite popular and (b) you should investigate the Jet programme.You need a degree (in anything) in order to qualify for a work visa, or hire a company that is willing to lie for you in exchange for about 10% of your paycheck (they do exist). Japan does not want unskilled labor entering Japan to work, except under very specific conditions (二世 Brazillians etc). As an 18 year old he likely does not have a degree and the second option would be rather suspicious.
The only real options for someone so young are as follows: exchange study from a university/college in your home country, foreign student at a Japanese university (must pass the 留学試験), cultural visa (must find someone willing to take you on as an apprentice AND sponsor you), marry a Japanese citizen, get a working-holiday visa (only available to people from Australia, Canada, France, New Zealand, the Republic of Korea, Germany, the United Kingdom, Ireland and Denmark). There are rural places that will give you room & board in exchange for working a few days a week on their farm. If you don't have much money you could do that for 3 months on a visa waiver or for longer on a working holiday visa.
Really I think you should think about the future and what you want to do as a career. Japan is always going to be there (unless Korea has anything to say about it) so just get some qualifications that make you an asset and THEN think about moving. You should however first visit Japan (I'm assuming that since you have no passport you've never been there) and see if you even like it there. MANY people who loved Japan end up hating it once they go there because it doesn't live up to the image they built up in their mind through anime and whatever else. A 3 month visa-waiver might be enough to tell.
Money might be a big part of the reluctant parents thing. Are you expecting them to fund your expedition? If you started saving the money for the move yourself and (as pm215 says) making actual plans, there is really nothing they can do. My parents would of course rather have me nearby, but it's my own life and I don't live off of them so they don't really have a say.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - samesong - 2009-01-02
pm215 Wrote:If you can stomach teaching English then (a) this is quite popular and (b) you should investigate the Jet programme.Don't be so quick to be judgmental about others' professions. Just because you don't like teaching doesn't make it a profession you have to "stomach".
Virtua_Leaf Wrote:There are a few barriers for me
Quote:I'm 18What does your have have to do with anything? Your age is actually something that is working for you here: the younger you are, the quicker and easier you'll find it to live somewhere foreign. I was 19 when I came here for the first time, and it was surprisingly easy.
Are you in college right now? Coming here without a college degree will be pretty difficult unless you're planning to come here and study (which I definitely support, and did myself. It's a great way to see if you like the country enough to live here)
Quote:never lived on my ownAgain, think of this in a positive light. You don't know what it's like to live on your own, so whether you start living on your own in the UK or Japan, you'll have to learn to learn how to make it on your own. And really, rent is rent, and laundry is laundry. You're just paying in yen and using アッタック laundry detergent to make your clothes smell pretty.
I lived with my parents up until I graduated college, so living in Japan is the first time I lived on my own too. Buy food, pay the gas bill, and remember to occasionally water your plants, and you'll be fine =)
Quote:don't have a passportWell get off your arse and apply for one!
Quote:reluctant parent(s)Any parent who isn't reluctant to let their kid fly off to a foreign country probably isn't a good parent in the first place! It sounds like you're just as reluctant as them right now, anyway. Convince yourself you definitely want to come here, and then work on convincing your parents. They'll follow suit.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - tibul - 2009-01-02
Jarvik7 Wrote:You need a degree (in anything) in order to qualify for a work visa, or hire a company that is willing to lie for you in exchange for about 10% of your paycheck (they do exist). Japan does not want unskilled labor entering Japan to work, except under very specific conditions (二世 Brazillians etc). As an 18 year old he likely does not have a degree and the second option would be rather suspicious.Also i'f you have i think its 10 years in a particular field i.e. in entertainment for example this also counts for not having a degree to qualify for a visa.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - tibul - 2009-01-02
nest0r Wrote:Yeah, I have a degree but it's not for teaching, plus as evidenced by my posts here, I'm not so great with people... but it's never too late to change! Good to know I can time my Master's/fluency and have a flexible set of viable options to check out Japan.I really do wish i had gotten a degree would have opened up more doors for me to get to Japan than to hope i can land myself an IT job
Plus I guess it's obvious that those programmes are kind of specialized towards preparing one to transition their degree into English teaching.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - oregum - 2009-01-02
Many international companies will hire foreigners for IT, accounting, finance, etc. If they have passed JLPT1 (some JLPT 2) and have proficiency in Keigo. I have seen several companies in Tokyo, like: PWC, Calyon, MS, Shinsei Bank, Bloomberg, and many others. So don't think, the only kind of work a foreigner can do in Tokyo/Japan is teaching. That is absolutely not true, the catch is you have to know Japanese. Imagine working in America without knowing English. There is not much you'd be hired to do.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - tibul - 2009-01-02
oregum Wrote:Many international companies will hire foreigners for IT, accounting, finance, etc. If they have passed JLPT1 (some JLPT 2) and have proficiency in Keigo. I have seen several companies in Tokyo, like: PWC, Calyon, MS, Shinsei Bank, Bloomberg, and many others. So don't think, the only kind of work a foreigner can do in Tokyo/Japan is teaching. That is absolutely not true, the catch is you have to know Japanese. Imagine working in America without knowing English. There is not much you'd be hired to do.Yeah most of the cases that i have read about that have landed a job there who hav'nt gone the degree/English teaching route, tend to be fluent in Japanese before they apply for a job i guess it show dedication and a love for the language/country.
Its the same with the degree teaching route the degree shows you have dedication so you don't even need to know any Japanese for the JET English teaching jobs.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - Ben_Nielson - 2009-01-02
Virtua-Leaf: You're a little lucky, as your profile says you're from the UK. The UK (and Australia, Canada, New Zealand, etc...) has a really sweet program with Japan.
This means that you can get the Working Holiday Visa. http://www.uk.emb-japan.go.jp/en/visa/work_hol.html
Generally, in Japan, you're required to have a 4 year degree from a university to get a work visa. There are other exceptions (cultural visas, etc.) but these are generally difficult to get.
So, what the working holiday visa will allow you to do is to get a job in Japan for one year. Move there, decide if you like it, put back some money, and work on some kind of long term situation if you want to stay. Basically you can then think about applying to a language school or Japanese university, or head back to your home country and go to university there. I'd say this is a very perfect break between high school and college and, if you're very active, will allow you to work on increasing your Japanese level substantially.
It's not the easiest thing in the world... you'll have to meet the requirements for the visa (check the page, some money concerns mostly) and then find a job in Japan, but it is possible..
Cultural visas are EXTREMELY difficult to get. You usually have to prove you studied in your home country (I believe for 3 years prior to getting the visa) and that you have an active sponsor in Japan who will be teaching you some Japanese cultural art.
The many different working visas are all basically the same thing, just for different fields, and require you have a 4 year college degree or (I think) 3 years of provable related work in the field you're going to be working in.
FYI - I'm living in Japan now, came here on a work visa and work in Japanese public schools. Teaching English isn't bad at all - decent salary, VERY easy job conditions, lots of holidays (I'm on a 3 week paid winter break right now. Um, yeah...), and gives you the means to live in Japan while you're working on your Japanese.
I've met plenty of people from the UK, Australia, and Canada that have come here on a 1 year working holiday visa. Very common...
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - shneen - 2009-01-02
I've done it twice. Once as an exchange student and am now here playing the ALT game.
My advice to you would be to set down some goals and figure out why you want to come and what you hope to accomplish while you're here. It'll help you with what programs to look at and which one you should choose.
Are you in university? Then look at your uni's exchange programs. If you're from the States, your financial aid package can actually be adjusted for your costs of studying abroad and you're eligible for whatever funding you normally get, plus you can typically borrow more to cover the additional costs.
Depending on the program and the agreement between your uni and the host uni, there may not be much additional cost compared to a normal semester. Mine worked out to be about equal in tuition, room & board, and living expenses.... the only real difference was the airfare.
And like some others have mentioned there's great scholarships. My semester ended up not costing me a dime, thanks to Freeman Asia, the JASSO scholarship, and a couple of other scholarships from my University.
I'm here as an ALT now... which if, after you finish school, feel that your Japanese is still not up to snuff, is a great way to learn the language. I have enough down time at work to get in lots of studying.... which wouldn't be true if I had a "real job." It's a lot of fun, but the job does get kind of boring after awhile. Your degree doesn't have to be education related... I think I know more ALTs who have degrees in other areas than those that actually have degrees in education... and it's not so much being great with people as it is just being a goofball in front of the kids. The more of an ass you make of yourself, the more they love you
My parents were all for me going to study abroad.... when it came time for me to come back to work... my dad was all for it... my mom flipped out (my brother had also recently moved, so she had a pretty big dose of empty nest). But I stuck to my guns... and she got over it.
I'd personally recommend coming as a student first. I had more opportunity/money to travel and go out... where as now things like getting a drivers license and maintaining my car have sucked up most of my time/money this year. If your parents are reluctant about letting you go, they might also feel better about going as a student, as your environment is typically a little bit more structured (ie living in a dorm or with a host family as opposed to by yourself), and the university is there to do some hand holding if needed.
I'd be happy to answer any questions about either one. Either way, living abroad is an amazing experience, and even if you're only 18, it doesn't hurt to sit down and look at your options.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - pm215 - 2009-01-02
Jarvik7 Wrote:I had thought that the usual tourist arrangement was of the "automatic grant of visa at port of entry" kind, but looking at the fine print you're right that it's a waiver. (Not that the technicalities matter in practice.)pm215 Wrote:One of the key magic words here is "visa". You can't get into the country without one, and you can't stay for long unless you have one of the type which lets you stay.Most modernized countries have visa waiver agreements with Japan in which you don't need a visa to enter Japan for a period of 2 weeks to 6 months (depending on the country).
I'd kind of focussed on the long-term-stay possibilities (since that was what I was interested in last time I was looking at them) but you're right that both the 3-month visa waiver and the working-holiday visa might be just what the original poster is looking for.
PS: apologies to samesong for my casual dissing of the teaching profession.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - Tobberoth - 2009-01-02
If you live in a country where the native language is English, you should probably go the "English teaching" route like everyone else. Overall, it's just MUCH easier and cheaper than any other way. For everyone else, it's either going there to study or going there to work (which demands you already know Japanese AND have qualifications for the work you want). Going there to marry works I guess, but it's not a route I would recommend
Personally, I'm aiming for JLPT1 then finding an IT job in Japan, but then again I don't want to work there permanently, so I might go for an IT job in Sweden with connections to Japan.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - Jarvik7 - 2009-01-02
pm215 Wrote:I had thought that the usual tourist arrangement was of the "automatic grant of visa at port of entry" kind, but looking at the fine print you're right that it's a waiver. (Not that the technicalities matter in practice.)The differences do matter in certain circumstances. A visa-waiver cannot be extended or renewed like a visa can (I wrestled with this myself once and just ended up going on a 3 day jaunt to Korea and coming back to get a new waiver). In the case of an emergency where you'd need to stay past your visa waiver (in the hospital etc) they give you special permission to stay in the country just as long as is required, but no longer.
There are also limits on how long you can be in the country during one year with the waiver. If you kept leaving Japan and coming back on a new waiver, you will eventually be denied entry into the country and possibly blacklisted for x amount of time. I believe the point at which they become suspicious is around 180 days or 3 waivers in one year, going by what the immigration office tells me. If you you have any sort of visa there is no limit to how long you can be in the country in one year, as long as the conditions of the visa remain valid (employed, married, attending school, etc).
You used to be able to get permanent residence status in Japan by just using the visa waiver over and over, going to Korea etc every 3 months, until you've been in Japan long enough to qualify (generally after 5 years). They closed this loophole a few years ago though.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - Tobberoth - 2009-01-02
I know a person personally who was denied entry because he had lived on a tourist visa for so long, going to Korea and back everytime to renew it. I don't know for how long he was blacklisted though.
Safe to say, it's not a good method for living in Japan. (Btw, I think getting automatic permanent Visa takes much longer now, my girlfriend claims 10 years).
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - Jarvik7 - 2009-01-02
Tobberoth Wrote:I know a person personally who was denied entry because he had lived on a tourist visa for so long, going to Korea and back everytime to renew it. I don't know for how long he was blacklisted though.You should be careful with your terminology. Waivers, status, and visas are three different things (citizenship is also not a "citizenship visa")
Safe to say, it's not a good method for living in Japan. (Btw, I think getting automatic permanent Visa takes much longer now, my girlfriend claims 10 years).
Japan has a "temporary visitor's visa", the closest thing to a tourist visa, which is not the same thing as the waiver. It's for countries which do not have waiver agreements I believe.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - shneen - 2009-01-02
Tobberoth Wrote:I know a person personally who was denied entry because he had lived on a tourist visa for so long, going to Korea and back everytime to renew it. I don't know for how long he was blacklisted though.Permanent residency isn't automatic... you have to apply for it. There aren't any exact numbers, but the benchmarks are something like 10 years if you're single... 5 if you're married to a Japanese citizen. And you have to be "making an active contribution to the advancement of Japanese society or Japanese culture" or something along those lines.....
Safe to say, it's not a good method for living in Japan. (Btw, I think getting automatic permanent Visa takes much longer now, my girlfriend claims 10 years).
Jarvik7 Wrote:Japan has a "temporary visitor's visa", the closest thing to a tourist visa, which is not the same thing as the waiver. It's for countries which do not have waiver agreements I believe.All the waiver means is that you don't have to apply for a visa ahead of time. You're given "Landing Permission" when you arrive.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - Tobberoth - 2009-01-02
Jarvik7 Wrote:You should be careful with your terminology. Waivers, status, and visas are three different things (citizenship is also not a "citizenship visa")It might not be the same thing, but TONS of countries have the waiver agreements and it's still called tourist visa by them. My language school didn't have a single student from a non-agreement country and the teachers still refered to it as tourist visa. The papers from the Swedish language school company also referred to it as a tourist visa, so that's simply what I'm used to call it. Since every Japanese and Swedish person I've talked to has referred to it as a tourist visa, I really can't say I find any reason to make a distinction.
Japan has a "temporary visitor's visa", the closest thing to a tourist visa, which is not the same thing as the waiver. It's for countries which do not have waiver agreements I believe.
The only real difference is whether the visa has to be issued before you go or not, I don't really find it that important to be careful with terminology when the difference is that miniscule
Besides that, I doubt anyone on this forum lives in a country which doesn't have the agreement, seems pretty much every single country in Europe and North America has it.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - Jarvik7 - 2009-01-02
Tobberoth Wrote:The only real difference is whether the visa has to be issued before you go or not, I don't really find it that important to be careful with terminology when the difference is that minisculeThe differences are not that miniscule and can infact be very serious, see above post. You yourself said you know someone who was blacklisted for abusing the waiver. It's not possible to abuse a visa in the same way. People just call the visa waiver a tourist visa because of not knowing better (which I used to be guilty of as well).
Tons of countries may have waiver agreements, but many tourists who enter Japan likely aren't from one of those countries (China doesn't have an agreement and is probably the largest source of tourists). Brazil is another big source without an agreement and I know that there are some Brazilians on the forum. Even if you're on the waiver list there are times when you'd want to apply for an actual short term visa. For example, Brunei only gives a 14day waiver but you could apply for a 3 month visa. Or, if you've been in Japan a lot on a waiver and were worried about getting blacklisted you could get the visa. I don't really get why you brought up the number of countries which have waivers anyways, since it has nothing to do with what I said.
The waiver is not a visa and does not have the same properties as one, other than letting you into the country. If everything goes smoothly, you have no problems during your time in Japan, you leave within the waiver's time limit, don't come back to Japan too much in one year, you don't want to extend your visit, and you're from a country on the agreement list then you shouldn't notice though.
On a side note, I just noticed that I should get around to applying for my dual Irish citizenship (I qualify by blood). Ireland has a 6 month waiver agreement instead of Canada's 3 month one.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - Tobberoth - 2009-01-02
Jarvik7 Wrote:It's not possible to abuse either of them, the only difference is the reason. Reapply for a visa and they simply won't pass it. Go in and out too many times and you're blacklisted. The difference is still miniscule. Whether you have a 30 day visa or a 90 day waiver, it's the same when you're in Japan and it's the same when you leave. If you seriously mean that someone would mistake a waiver for a visa just because of what I wrote and then go to Japan and abuse it to get blacklisted, I really doubt that would happen since anyone sane should realize that they wouldn't have waivers at all if it was okey to go in and out of the country just to renew them.Tobberoth Wrote:The only real difference is whether the visa has to be issued before you go or not, I don't really find it that important to be careful with terminology when the difference is that minisculeThe differences are not that miniscule and can infact be very serious, see above post. You yourself said you know someone who was blacklisted for abusing the waiver. It's not possible to abuse a visa in the same way. People just call the visa waiver a tourist visa because of not knowing better (which I used to be guilty of as well).
I still don't see your point in making the distinction.
Of course the amount of countries matter... Even if there WAS a big difference between tourist visas and waivers (which there isn't, if there were Japanese people who work with it wouldn't call it tourist visas, it wouldn't be called a visa-waiver agreement either), it wouldn't be worth making a distinction if 99% of all countries in the world used one instead of the other. I'm surprised that Brazil isn't on the agreement list though, good thing you brought it up. I was certain they were on it because of the relatively big amount of Japanese people living in Brazil.
The distinction between waiver and visa is IMO formal and I would consider your post nitpicking
Still, I'll refer to it as a waiver from now on if that pleases you.Of course, if you want to list the differences between a waiver anda visa, I'd like to hear it. From what I can see, the only difference is the application for it, you have the exact same rights and obligations while in Japan. Also, to get the waiver you need a return ticket and the ability to demonstrate you have enough cash to live out the stay. But yeah, that's it from what I can see.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - Tobberoth - 2009-01-02
Another thing I noticed while looking up information about all this... It seems to, at least in theory, be equally easy to become a Japanese citizen as it is to get a permanent visa. Becoming a citizen has a few more restrictions, but all of them are easily passable. Naturalization demands you have lived in Japan for 5 or more years while Permanent Visa has no explicit demand on how long you've lived there... but in practice, it seems that 10 years or more is to be expected unless you already have a Japanese spouse etc.
Idiot-proof guide to moving to Japan? - shneen - 2009-01-02
Tobberoth, I think you're confusing the landing permission sticker with a visa. They're not the same.
The Visa Waiver Program is simply that... a program. It's an AGREEMENT between two countries that allows the citizens of those countries to come and go on a short term basis without having to secure a visa. It's NOT a visa, and it seeing as how it's an agreement between countries, you don't really use it to get into a country. It more or less simplifies the process for you, but doesn't guarantee you anything.
A visa is a legal document that grants potential (but not guaranteed) entry into a country. You apply for this BEFORE you arrive in country. These are usually full page stickers in your passport.
Like I said before, in the case of Japan, you receive "Landing Permission" once you arrive. This is NOT your visa.... but it does determine your legal status and legal period of stay in the country. If you have a visa already, then obviously your Landing Permission is based on that, but if you enter under the visa waiver, you skip the visa step. You're given Landing Permission for 90 days. You're technically not issued a visa.
The only other VWP country I've visited is Korea... which in the same case, I didn't apply for and wasn't issued a visa. The legal term of my stay was simply stamped into my passport.