problems with the character set

problems with the character set - Printable Version

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problems with the character set - EusthEnoptEron - 2008-12-24

Hey there,

I'm using Vista here (I know, I know) and do have annoying problems with the japanese character set.

The problem:
Some kanji are displayed in their old forms (I assume), although they shouldn't.

Random example:

[Image: wrongSweets.jpg]

which should be
[Image: correctSweets.jpg]

It's not that big of a problem, since I should know most of the old forms. But it could throw off my sense for when to write the old and when to write the new form.

My current guess is, that I should update my character set, but...

Could anyone lead me to the right direction?

problems with the character set - Tobberoth - 2008-12-24

Just getting more fonts should solve it (I have the same problem on Linux, some kanji just look completely retarded... For example, 船's top right part (the 八) looks like the top of missile...

problems with the character set - kazelee - 2008-12-24

That is weird. I never Vista did that. Why the old fashioned stuff?

problems with the character set - oregum - 2008-12-24

I'm using Vista on my brother's laptop and I notice that frame 1264-gamble is written (in all occurrences of the kanji) with a 'left to right drop' on top of 'sun'. While on my denshijisho it shows up without the 'drop'.

Same problem with EusthEnoptEron's example. I don't know what number/key word it is in Heisig, but I if I type あめ(飴）it shows up old fashioned.

This only seems to happen on a few kanji, but it's a bit annoying. In case of the 飴, I know that left side is old fashion and it's not a problem. But when an extra 'drop' shows up on 1264-gamble I worry that I may learn it incorrectly.

I'm not familiar with hanzi, any correlation?

problems with the character set - furrykef - 2008-12-24

I think what you're seeing there isn't old-fashioned characters but rather Chinese ones. This post I wrote on another forum explains what's going on and why it happens. Installing more fonts as suggested would probably solve the problem. What Japanese fonts do you have installed now?

- Kef

problems with the character set - mystes - 2008-12-24

Vista's Japanese fonts follow the updated JIS standard. This gets posted roughly once every month.

problems with the character set - EusthEnoptEron - 2008-12-25

Thanks for the replies.

furrykef Wrote:I think what you're seeing there isn't old-fashioned characters but rather Chinese ones. This post I wrote on another forum explains what's going on and why it happens. Installing more fonts as suggested would probably solve the problem. What Japanese fonts do you have installed now?

- Kef

Interesting, I've never heard of Han Unification. But how exactly does the OS determine, which set to use?

So, just installing some Japanese fonts should help? Hm... I'll try that, thanks, furrykef and Tobberoth.

As for fonts:
Currently there's only the KanjiStrokeOrders one on my computer, apart from the standard Japanese fonts which came with Vista.

problems with the character set - oregum - 2008-12-26

I tried a bunch of fonts and the problem seems to be inherent to Vista, as my XP comp is ok. I looked at the other posts and they offer the same solutions.

Only a handful of fonts fix the problem. But when I say fix, I mean not 100%. For example:

Fixed by selecting a different font like NSimSun
http://kanji.koohii.com/study/index.php?search=gamble
賭>the extra 'drop' on 'sun'
http://kanji.koohii.com/study/index.php?search=sweets
飴>old fasioned
http://kanji.koohii.com/study/index.php?search=Japanese%20oak
楢>the 'horns' on the 'sake bottle' appear as a 'separated enter' (like in 'valley')

However, when when fonts that fix the previously mentioned problems is selected I noticed that they change certain strokes of other kanji
http://kanji.koohii.com/study/index.php?search=wrap
包> 'self' 己 appears as 'sign of snake' 巳
http://kanji.koohii.com/study/index.php?search=foster
養> the first stroke of the 'umbrella' is part of 'sheep' primitive

I'm using my brother's Vista laptop atm, and I usually use XP, so I haven't seen other examples. Again, this problem seems to be with Vista. I'm not extremely picky but its annoying to see extra strokes.

problems with the character set - pm215 - 2008-12-26

oregum Wrote:a different font like NSimSun

Thirty seconds googling says that NSimSun is a Simplified Chinese font. Don't use it for Japanese, you will run into the kind of problems you notice. If you get to select a font, pick one which was actually intended for Japanese.

(I think Han unification is a bit of a nightmare, and this website doesn't make it any easier by not actually marking the kanji as being Japanese, which forces the OS to make guesses (which it's often wrong about.)

problems with the character set - oregum - 2008-12-26

pm215 Wrote:Thirty seconds googling says that NSimSun is a Simplified Chinese font. Don't use it for Japanese, you will run into the kind of problems you notice. If you get to select a font, pick one which was actually intended for Japanese.

I'm not saying that NSimSun is not Chinese. I'm just saying it is one of the five 5 (or so) fonts that fixes the problems I outlined above. However by fixing the original problem, they cause some consequences, because they are sim. Chinese fonts.

Using Open Word and Japanese IME input, I tried all the fonts that come with Vista home premium, as well a ms pmincho I downloaded. Also, in Firefox I am forcing it to display everything in Japanese. When I use a Japanese or non-Chinese font the original problem persists. Unless you are using Vista, this is hard to explain.

problems with the character set - iSoron - 2008-12-26

Have you tried Epson fonts?

You can get them here:
http://www.wazu.jp/gallery/Fonts_Japanese.html

problems with the character set - mystes - 2008-12-26

If you don't like this change you need to use something like this to switch to JIS90 style fonts. This change has nothing to do with the unicode han unification.

problems with the character set - oregum - 2008-12-26

iSoron Wrote:Have you tried Epson fonts?

You can get them here:
http://www.wazu.jp/gallery/Fonts_Japanese.html

Thanx iSoron, forcing Firefox to use these fonts does the trick. It doesn't fix the underlying problem, but I can live this that.

mystes Wrote:If you don't like this change you need to use something like this to switch to JIS90 style fonts. This change has nothing to do with the unicode han unification.

This seems like too much of a hassle. Plus I don't know what kind of changes this will have. I'm using my bro's laptop and don't want him to be stuck with Japanese all over the place.