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Listening progress during the kanji phase (AJATT) - igordesu - 2008-12-12
Okay, I know I said a while ago that I'm not gonna post that much here anymore b/c I wanna focus more on Japanese, but it turns out that I'm breaking that rule A LOT. Oh well. So, I'm not the type to ask specific details and stuff of everybody and how they do things because, for me, part of learning is actually figuring out what really does work for me.
With that aside, as I'm doing AJATT and learning kanji, I was wondering what your experiences are with listening progress during the kanji phase. I haven't starting doing sentences yet (duh, I'm still in the kanji phase...), so I was wondering how much I can expect with my listening progress before I start sentences. Okay, that sounds reeeeeeaaaaally bad in a lot of ways (everybody learns at their own pace, not everybody finishes kanji in the same amount of time, why am I asking specific questions like this, etc...) but I'm just a tad curious. I've always kind of wondered about the connection between sentences progress and listening progress. I don't know, regardless of your answers, I'm still doing "All Japanese All the Time (minus the time spent on these stupid posts, lol...)." But I was just wondering if I could/should expect any progress at all during the kanji phase. You know? Okay, I want to keep rambling, but my instincts are telling me you've had enough, lol...
Listening progress during the kanji phase (AJATT) - Dragg - 2008-12-12
I did one lesson a day of Pimsleur while doing RTK. In the beginning, it seemed like it helped a lot, but I found out later that Pimsleur doesn't actually take you very far. It was still worth it because it helped me deeply ingrain some of the most very basic grammar points in spoken form.
I've been long done with RTK, and right now I am listening to Japanese audio about 6 to 8 hours a day on average (in fact, I'm listening at this very moment.) After having done this for over a week (about two I think), I can say that, for me, listening to Japanesepod101 helps me the best because it builds on itself at a fast, steady pace. I also spend a lot of time listening to streaming native audio, which doesn't seem to teach me anything new, but it re-enforces what I've learned and it really does help me to parse sentences (both written and verbal) better. I used to have problems telling where some words begin or end, but a week of native audio has done wonders in that regard.
Unfortunately, music hasn't really helped much at all. I just pick up the occasional word because the lack of normal spoken rhythm really messes me up. If I followed along with print lyrics it might work better, but I'm not a big fan of Japanese music anyway so I don't really have the patience.
There IS a connection between spoken and written Japanese meaning that the more you are well-rounded, the further you will advance at both in a shorter time. However, you are unlikely to notice it so much when you are still doing kanji with heisig method. It should become more apparent when you jump into sentences and vocab compounds.
Listening progress during the kanji phase (AJATT) - Dragg - 2008-12-12
Erm, basically I realized I didn't answer your question in my long post. Basically, I didn't progress much at all in terms of listening progress during RTK 1. I might have benefited more if I focused more on Japanesepod but less on Pimsleur. Obviously, any great amount of time spent on audio will probably cut into your kanji-learning time so it is left at your discretion. About 2 hours a day of Japanesepod for two months would get you pretty damn far though.. maybe even to the lower intermediate level.
Listening progress during the kanji phase (AJATT) - igordesu - 2008-12-13
Hmm. Interesting. Yeah, I guess I did have a bit of a background in Japanese before I started with RTK and AJATT (a class for a year with me studying my rear off outside of class b/c I'm a nerd like that, then a 16 day trip to japan all with a host family, and finally my history of anime, etc.). So, I did know a bit coming into the AJATT thing. Particularly, my immersion in Japan was the first point where I was able to *really* pick out individual sounds, sentence patterns, words, etc. I guess AJATT is now just an extension of that.
So, a lot of what I recognize now is stuff that I learned earlier. Even if it's just a word that I "learned/saw" out of context in class like a year ago, now that I hear it repeated over and over, I eventually figure out/remember what it means. I pick up random stuff from subtitles, too(note: I know subs are bad, and I'm going to stop; I'm just using them as my impetus to get through the kanji phase)--the subs thing isn't like "so that's how you say that sentence" though. It's more like, I read the subs before they start/finish speaking, and then I recognize what they're saying independently and connect it to what I saw in the subs. Yeah, it's complicated and maybe not that great, but I'm sure some of you know what I mean. It's also kind of frustrating but encouraging because I often notice how the nuances of what they're saying in Japanese aren't quite what the subs are saying.
Oh yeah, and I did try the pimsleur thing. I don't think I'm going to do that (no offense
). It was kind of boring and the language they used was so proper and so different from that which I heard while I was in Japan, I just couldn't stomach it, lol...but to each his own. I might try japanesepod if i can tear myself away from repeated viewings of the death note movie and dramas. Still, do you think that listening progress is mostly (not completely) independent of sentences progress? Let's say, hypothetically, someone took 2 years to do RTK but faithfully kept up an immersion environment. (this is hypothetical, lol, I don't plan on doing this; I'm just a curious little cat...) Would you really progress that much?
okay, instincts are again telling me you are no longer interested in what my blabbering mouth has to say, lol...
Listening progress during the kanji phase (AJATT) - igordesu - 2008-12-13
ps: my official "hypothesis" on this whole matter is that, in a nutshell, listening can and will develop perfectly fine on it's own, but learning "sentences" significantly shortens the process.
Listening progress during the kanji phase (AJATT) - suffah - 2008-12-13
Listening has been my Achilles' heel for a while. It is so far behind my reading/grammar/vocab/etc it is rather embarrassing. So about 6 weeks ago I decided I had to make a serious effort in integrating audio into my life somehow.
The main problem is that leaving Japanese audio on in the background 24/7 doesn't work for me. I never pick out phrases or words. I never ever think "oh, I know that word" or did he just say "これ”? It's just gibberish in the background. I've tried dramas, anime, variety shows, podcasts, etc but I just can't pick anything out. One word per hour would be awesome, but even that doesn't happen. The problem for me, at least personally, is two-fold. One, I am dependent on subtitles even when watching American television. I think this has caused my listening comprehension to diminish over time. Secondly, my hearing is pretty bad. I wear hearing aids in both ears (I'm 29).
So, what's my plan of attack? I've been using the Shadowing book every day during my commute. Well, I don't really use the book, I just listen to the cd every day and refer to the book with sentences I can't figure out via listening. I also started using iKnow as a tool to get more practice with audio. I already know the vocab/kanji, I just want to make sure I can shadow the sentence examples. I really enjoy the dictation part of iKnow. Finally, I'm meeting very regularly with a native Japanese lady for language exchange. It's only been 6 weeks but it's the first time I've felt I've made real progress in the listening realm. My plan is to continue until I finish the Shadowing cd and then see if I can make a transition to normal Japanese television. I have no doubt that this will work.
I've never tried incorporating audio sentences into Anki. I just play the shadowing cd lessons over and over again. I would highly recommend this source if you are looking for something that doesn't use English (i.e. Pimsleur, japanesepod101, etc). Its for beginners to probably lower intermediate levels. You probably won't learn a lot of new vocab (unless you've just finished RtK), but the speech is very clear and spoken very naturally. They speak at normal speed (aka too fast for my foreign ears
). The link for the book is https://www.whiterabbitpress.com/product.php?productid=16500
I picked it up at the local Kinokuniya and should be pretty widely available.
Listening progress during the kanji phase (AJATT) - Dragg - 2008-12-13
igordesu Wrote:ps: my official "hypothesis" on this whole matter is that, in a nutshell, listening can and will develop perfectly fine on it's own, but learning "sentences" significantly shortens the process.I agree. Learning from audio alone is definitely tough though, and as far as my experience goes, I have had to be fairly picky about what audio I listen to in order to get good results. (stuff that is deliberately instructional works best.) However, some people here have claimed extraordinary results just from listening to their favorite media over and over again. If you feel that you are picking up enough just from watching anime and dramas, you might be able to simply look up the stuff you don't understand in an online dictionary or transcript to fill the gaps without having to follow a "system" at all. (at least for the listening end of it.)
Suffah sounds like he's got a really good plan for improving the ability to parse spoken sentences on the fly. I still haven't tried Iknow but it sounds very promising. The shadowing CD sounds helpful too.
Listening progress during the kanji phase (AJATT) - kazelee - 2008-12-13
アンパンマンとピタゴラスイーチを見る。
Listening progress during the kanji phase (AJATT) - usis35 - 2008-12-13
kazelee Wrote:アンパンマンとピタゴラスイーチを見る。ピタゴラスイッチ
Listening progress during the kanji phase (AJATT) - bodhisamaya - 2008-12-13
I stopped listening to anime while studying. It was hurting my concentration. I have gone back to listening to "hippi" new age music and lighting incense to relax me and make the process much more enjoyable
.I take breaks from study and watch Japanese variety and music dvds I bought cheap on Ebay and attempt to read the kanji subtitles they put at the bottom of the screen. Online Japanese news broadcasts also have subtitles in Kanji streaming. I have some Akira Kurosawa films with Japanese audio and subtitles but the pace is a little slow.
Listening progress during the kanji phase (AJATT) - igordesu - 2008-12-13
I've noticed that, even coming in as a beginner/advanced beginner (with maybe some Japanese knowledge already under your belt), things like Totoro are way easier than things like Death Note right off the bat as far as the sheer amount of things you can catch/understand. Still, I've seen the death note movie MANY, MANY times now, and I can understand lots of stuff. Maybe this points to the fact that repetition is more important than the difficulty of the material? Either way, once I start doing sentences, I'll start looking up random words from the stuff I'm watching.
I've also decided that I've got to cut back on the J-music and get more normal conversation/spoken Japanese. I just don't end up getting as much out of music (as fun as it is) as I do normal Japanese. And it's still fun (for me anyway) to listen to things that I've seen (like the ripped audio from the Death note movie--as you can tell, I'm a little obsessed with it...)