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+--- Thread: Forgetting all Kanji after 1 day. Can't keep up pace. (/thread-2222.html)
Forgetting all Kanji after 1 day. Can't keep up pace. - Mesqueeb - 2008-12-10
Heya everyone!
I had no time to study for 3 weeks so added no new kanji, but only reviewed. And that made my current deck pretty solid, as in I really know them well. But I also felt I needed those weeks to restudy a lot of them and to stagnate my deck, maybe I was running ahead of myself. Anyway
I started learning again, and did 50 Kanji the first day, only to find I had only around 10% remembered the day after! And not only that but I hated spending 3 minutes trying to remember a Kanji to have it wrong anyway. That way reviewing from this site takes A LOT of time. (edit: it's not that the story is bad, because when I see the kanji I get these thoughts: "ooooh yeahh!! why did I forgot that xD")
So I was thinking I might be taking a wrong approach of reviewing... If I keep this up I'll run ahead of myself AGAIN and need a break to stagnate. I read the thread about learning new ones every day, but I can't see how that works if they just all come in your failed stack... So I was thinking this:
I learn a bunch of Kanji from the book, and the next day before learning new ones I review them by the BOOK, I watch at the keyword and the kanji and remember the story. Once I have reviewed the same kanji from the book for about 3 or 4 days, I will add them to my deck here and start the real reviewing. What do you guys think about that? If I do 3 days of book-reviewing the same Kanji, I will have to go over 120 Book-Review-Kanji each day if I learn around 40 a day. I am thinking this would be possible. And after the 3 days I'll get lots better result on the review here. (But haven't tested yet)
Please share your thoughts!
-Mesqueeb
Forgetting all Kanji after 1 day. Can't keep up pace. - theasianpleaser - 2008-12-10
I think it's better to put your stories in using this website and just keep adding and reviewing. Sometimes when my stories are shaky, I remember part of someone else's story I glanced over and the kanji sticks better. Even if you fail alot of kanji on the website, your going to review them again anyway so let the SRS do it's work. If you review by book only, then add to the website, it just seems to be extra work.
Forgetting all Kanji after 1 day. Can't keep up pace. - kfmfe04 - 2008-12-10
Spend more time remembering the stories upfront, or spend more time later when you fail a review. The way I look at it, if a Kanji can't be recalled in about 10 seconds, I would fail the card and review.
You need to adjust your pace and the amount of time focused on a card to fit your current situation.
Forgetting all Kanji after 1 day. Can't keep up pace. - Mesqueeb - 2008-12-10
True to that, I don't have enough computer-time to add stories here, BUT I will cut my thinking time for a kanji to 10 seconds. Thanks!
I still would like to know what other people think about the book reviews though. xD
Please keep on posting!
-Mesqueeb
Forgetting all Kanji after 1 day. Can't keep up pace. - kfmfe04 - 2008-12-10
You need to be very precise in your studies. This is what you are trying to do:
Keyword -> Image/Story -> Kanji
Do not look at the keyword and the kanji at the same time!
*** When working on one Kanji, do not leave that Kanji until you can do:
Keyword -> Image/Story -> Kanji
*** Make sure you do actually write out the Kanji on paper.
"In your mind" doesn't count.
Sometimes you will get it in one try and sometimes, it will take multiple tries.
*** Also, let the SRS tell you when you need to review - don't waste time going brute-force and review all the Kanji unnecessarily - you will bore yourself to death!
In other words, put them into your deck SOONER. When you get the sequence right once:
Keyword -> Image/Story -> Kanji
put it in the deck.
---------------------------------------
For this last suggestion, you will get different opinions from different people.
(some people like to gun for completion, regardless of how many cards are failed)
I like to tune my studies so I can consistently get 85-90%+ correct during reviews.
It does not matter how many I do a day, as long as I do at least ONE NEW card.
Don't get too obsessed with the pacing or it will come back and bite you when you have Kanji based on your earlier studies or when your fails become unmanageable.
Forgetting all Kanji after 1 day. Can't keep up pace. - plumage - 2008-12-11
maybe 50 a day is just too many for you. there is a huge range on this site, and for some 50 a day is a breeze. for others, less is more.
Forgetting all Kanji after 1 day. Can't keep up pace. - mentat_kgs - 2008-12-11
I did 50/day for a while, and talked a lot with people that did it. It is never a breeze. It feels like your head will explode.
But it works!
Edit: It actually doesn't feel like your head will explode. It feels like blood is gonna gush out your ears.
Forgetting all Kanji after 1 day. Can't keep up pace. - phauna - 2008-12-11
Do your fifty stories/ images then just forget about them. Do them early in the day, then later that day, just open the book up again and skim over them, thinking lightly about them. You could even do that two times a day. You're not reviewing, just stroking those memories a bit. Then the next day you do your reviews or whatever, when they are due. Leave the book on your coffee table and just pick it up every now and them and look at a few of the kanjis you've done. No strain, no pressure, just peruse it.
Forgetting all Kanji after 1 day. Can't keep up pace. - activeaero - 2008-12-11
No offense but forget that 3 day book method or whatever you were trying to describe. The process is extremely simple.
1. Use the study section of this site to study the Kanji first. Use other people's stories if they are good, that is what they are there for. 95% of my Kanji used stories from other people.
2. Close your eyes and think about the actual images of your story. Don't just say the story, actually imagine it happening in your mind.
3. Write the Kanji on paper while acting out the story in your mind again. Like someone else has said do NOT just write it in the air with your finger the first time. I did this quite a bit and suffered because of it. You only need to write it ONCE.
4. Add the Kanji to your deck.
5. Give yourself at least 30min to 1hr before you test it and do NOT review it at all during that time. Yes I know some people wait a day before testing. Waste of time IMO. Get it in the SRS and let it do it's job.
6. Stop doing 50 per day unless you are in some insane rush to get finished. 50 is killer and I know from experience. Shoot for 20 per day and adjust from there.
Forgetting all Kanji after 1 day. Can't keep up pace. - Jawful - 2008-12-11
activeaero Wrote:5. Give yourself at least 30min to 1hr before you test it and do NOT review it at all during that time. Yes I know some people wait a day before testing. Waste of time IMO. Get it in the SRS and let it do it's job.I agree with all your points. I want to stress this one in particular. That's exactly how I study. Give yourself JUST long enough that you do have to remember, but do it while it's fresh so it comes more easily. I study 20 or 30, then come back an hour-ish later and test myself on them. If successful, I throw them into SRS and come back a day later. I find that alone makes the next time (the following day) so much easier.
Forgetting all Kanji after 1 day. Can't keep up pace. - Mesqueeb - 2008-12-12
Hmmm, the thing you suggested Active Aero, doesn't work at all for me. I have tried it in the past and I forget stories made by other people. Besides, as I have mentioned earlier, I have only limited time at the computer, like 1 hour a day, and so don't have time to study with the computer, only review. However this is very interesting Phauna!
phauna Wrote:Do your fifty stories/ images then just forget about them. Do them early in the day, then later that day, just open the book up again and skim over them, thinking lightly about them. You could even do that two times a day. You're not reviewing, just stroking those memories a bit. Then the next day you do your reviews or whatever, when they are due. Leave the book on your coffee table and just pick it up every now and them and look at a few of the kanjis you've done. No strain, no pressure, just peruse it.Phaune you helped me more than once in the past and I was always greatful! And this technique is actually very simmilar to my book-review technique. I maybe called my technique wrong, because what I meant by reviewing with the book, by looking at both kanji and keyword is NOT reviewing. It is actually just recalling the story. And it is exactly what you suggest Phauna. I have used the technique for 3 days now and it seems that I don't need to recall the stories I make 3 days long. My schedule will be as followed:
1 Recall yesterday's stories while holding book.
2 Study new Kanji
3 At evening recall both new stories and yesterday's stories.
4 Review yesterday's stories
This way I have made the story, and recalled it 3 times: That evening, the next morning, and the evening of that day. Then when the review come it's so delighting to have all the stories fresh in your mind because what you did was just learning them 4 times before you start reviewing!
I really like this method!
Basic Principle: Create Story and recall it a few times, before going to reviewing.
Oh and I am actually an exchange student living in Japan and so during classes I can study every hour, all day long, each day. So 50 Kanji a day is a piece of cake for me! >,< But without the recalling of stories I would have suck-ass reviews and spend hours on reviewing. I learned that it's not how many you do, it's HOW you do them! xD
Thanks for all your advices! And until the next exciting adventure!
-Mesqueeb
Forgetting all Kanji after 1 day. Can't keep up pace. - Tobberoth - 2008-12-12
1 hour is too little IMO, it's still too fresh. I usually read the book while inserting stories on the study page, then I add them. Then I wait AT LEAST 3 hours, usually 4 or 5. THEN I review them. That means you still have to work some to remember, but you shouldn't fail a single one.
Forgetting all Kanji after 1 day. Can't keep up pace. - Mesqueeb - 2008-12-12
Ofcourse 1 hour is too little... that's why I don't study by the computer, only review! >,<
I think it's even time waste when entering stories here on this site, because I always remember the story even when failing a kanji, just right after seeing it. So the stories are really there in my head, just not clearly enough, that's why the story-recalling technique before adding them to my deck works best for me!
-Mesqueeb
Forgetting all Kanji after 1 day. Can't keep up pace. - activeaero - 2008-12-13
It seems like a lot of you don't get the point of an SRS. What you are doing by waiting so long to review and going over them over and over is just doing the exact same thing the SRS is designed to do FOR YOU. Stop worrying about getting perfect review percentages and let the darn SRS do it's job. If you put it in there you WILL learn it.
In just 3.5 months I have nearly 1,100 Kanji in the fifth stack or beyond (and have finished RTK1) because I didn't waste time doing all kinds of extra work. I spent MAYBE 1 minute per new Kanji and tested them all just a little bit later so saying 1hr is too soon is just flat out wrong, period.
Trust the SRS, seriously.