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Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - Erubey - 2008-12-10
Got any? This isn't meant to put people down or complain about japanese(well kind of), its just things that we wish weren't there or would like if they weren't. Because of preference. Hopefully not any anger, hate, discrimination, etc.
1. When people put Japanese words in the middle of sentences. I don't mean people/otakus who don't know Japanese saying Arigatou, but for example:
"When people put 日本語(Japanese) in the middle of their sentences. I don't mean people/オタク(otaku) who don't know Japanese saying arigatou, but for example".
This is mainly bred out because with Spanish/English speakers I see this a lot, and it is considered by the culture, whether mexican-american or just mexican, as a sign of laziness, lower intelligence, and immaturity. Spanglish
2. Authors that put in outdated kanji apparently for the hell of it. I can see how it fits for a more classic leaning mood or a formal style, but I see words that use very rare kanji for simple words. Why? When they use it they HAVE to put the furigana next to it, and it kind of breaks the flow of the reading in my opinion. Doesn't happen a lot of course.
Again, just pet peeves. Not any real anger or pointing out specific people here.
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - liosama - 2008-12-10
I have absolutely no idea what point 1. means. Do you mean when people throw desu at the end of a sentence or say kawaii or something?
and as for 2.
i don't really see the need to get angry, it means another kanji you learn
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - Nukemarine - 2008-12-10
Looking at your post, it looks more like pet peeves on how people use Japanese (either in Japanese or in other languages).
Here's mine
1. Using -san when English mode. The very people that would say Mr. Peredez (not Senor Peredez), have no problem say Miyumi-san (not Ms. Miyumi). Granted, everytime I hear Mama-san and Papa-san, it grates me even worse. Of course, it's my pet peeve and I realize using -san is perfectly acceptable (unless there's a native opinion on this matter).
2. Random use of English in Japanese. Ok, the English language is bad about this too.
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - Tobberoth - 2008-12-10
I dislike all english loanwords in Japanese. It's not that I'm against the act of loaning words, all languages do it. It just sounds so dumb in Japanese when you know English since they are completely destroying the pronounciation, so the words don't fit into Japanese and they don't fit into English. It's horrible. On the other hand, it's really useful when you're a beginner at Japanese, but still. I would prefer a Japanese language without em.
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - Erubey - 2008-12-10
Quote:Looking at your post, it looks more like pet peeves on how people use Japanese (either in Japanese or in other languages).Yeah I was thinking of others just in the language. Such as never using P's! Too many A sounds. I try to remember what it was like before I understood japanese and it was just noises to me, and its mind bending.
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - Erubey - 2008-12-10
liosama Wrote:I have absolutely no idea what point 1. means. Do you mean when people throw desu at the end of a sentence or say kawaii or something?Take this AJATT quote
. Many salarymen (サラリーマン) in Japan have, on a good weekday, maybe two hours of discretionary time — if that.
Everyone knows what salarymen are.... Why is the japanese word even there?
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - theasianpleaser - 2008-12-10
liosama Wrote:Everyone knows what salarymen are.... Why is the japanese word even there?Creates a sense of unity. "We 'work' long hours and have one word to describe us with little explanation"
Maybe...
My only pet peeve is with present and past tenses in any form of writing. Even though things occurred in the past, the stories are told by a "present" point of view as if the story is happening as you read. Yes this is normal. But then throwing in past tense verbs and adjectives as "extra" information or "not relevant" to the main point of the story still gives me a headache sometimes.
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - liosama - 2008-12-10
But it is a Japanese word, maybe the kana was there to emphasise it was a Japanese word? (cause it is)
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - QuackingShoe - 2008-12-10
theasianpleaser Wrote:But then throwing in past tense verbs and adjectives as "extra" information or "not relevant" to the main point of the story still gives me a headache sometimes.Isn't that the other way around?
English in Japanese bugs me too, but only in certain circumstances. Loanwords are just going to happen and I'm fine with them when they're reasonable and actually distinct from native Japanese words in some way. However, イエスアイデゥー makes me feel a little violent. It never... ever... matches the situation it's used in...
One of the characters in the game I'm playing right now uses English all the time. It would irritate me, except that it's done specifically to make his character annoying. This delights me instead
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - Captain_Thunder - 2008-12-10
Personally, I feel as though a lot of grammatical constructs are quite vague, and there are a lot of ways to express the same thing. Oftentimes when I ask a question about why a particular verb form or particle was used in a sentence, the answer is "just 'cause". Even if it does add a nuance over an alternative, it's often a trivial difference in English. Of course these types of troubles will go away over time, but it's difficult to simply understand the language as it comes when I'm trying to mentally find the specific nuance of every sentence.
If that makes sense.
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - alyks - 2008-12-11
Tobberoth Wrote:I dislike all english loanwords in Japanese. It's not that I'm against the act of loaning words, all languages do it. It just sounds so dumb in Japanese when you know English since they are completely destroying the pronounciation, so the words don't fit into Japanese and they don't fit into English. It's horrible. On the other hand, it's really useful when you're a beginner at Japanese, but still. I would prefer a Japanese language without em.I agree completely with this. What's ridiculous is when I run into loanwords where I don't even know what the original English word is.
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - joxn_costello - 2008-12-11
My pet peeve is the pair of particles に and で. Oh sure, it should be obvious which is correct, and sometimes it is, but there are all these corner cases and in metaphorical usages I can never tell which is right. (And don't get me started about へ, which the なかま textbook series introduces really late and therefore I never use.)
Interestingly, I participated in an experiment where a Japanese grad student had put together a 4 or 5 page test which was basically a hundred "pick the correct particle" multiple choice questions. And after I was done I looked at her and said, "you only care about に and で, don't you?" She gave me this sheepish grin, which I took to mean I was right.
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - megaboyx - 2008-12-11
I hate people who stick Japanese words into their English.
"Let's go down to the konbini to get some food" "I had a nice talk with the kouchou sensei the other day."
I actually just correct them on the spot because I'm sick of it. There is already an English word for those things, it's not like judo or karaoke or something.
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - Jawful - 2008-12-11
megaboyx Wrote:I hate people who stick Japanese words into their English.Disagree. I guess mainly because I do it. But it's not just that I do it. I've consciously thought about this before and decided that it's completely normal and natural. When you and your friends are all ALTs at school, lots of school words end up in your English. ichi, ni, sannensei, kocho/kyoto-sensei, chugakko, shogakko, etc. For whatever reason, running into random people who you've never met still use the same set of Japanese words in their English. There's something natural about it. Who you're talking to matters. But we don't have "1st graders" at junior high back home, so it's sounded off from the very beginning to say that.
"Let's go down to the konbini to get some food" "I had a nice talk with the kouchou sensei the other day."
I actually just correct them on the spot because I'm sick of it. There is already an English word for those things, it's not like judo or karaoke or something.
Just like I've grown accustomed to and started using some Britishism in my English. I'm not from the UK but my closest friends are and I can't help picking up their words.
I also have zero problem with loan words. Silly ones that are just from pop-culture aren't really loan words until they are in a dictionary. But many words are just part of the Japanese language now and I gladly use them, with proper Japanese (non-English) pronunciation and all.
On the note of "karaoke." When I started learning Japanese, I always said "カラオケ" (think Ross on Friends saying からて). But I stopped doing that. At least with people who don't speak any Japanese. The word is English just the same, and it's pronounced kary-oh-kee. If you say カラオケ, then you're injecting the Japanese into the English sentence as far as I'm concerned (see point 1).
Language is a means of communication. When a subset of people uses specific words/pronunciations, there isn't right and wrong, there are variations.
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - Jawful - 2008-12-11
megaboyx Wrote:There is no reason to use such words in English. Even if you have to make an effort not to say ichinensei, instead say first year (jr high) students or whatever. Even 6th graders would be better because that is what they are. What's worse is hearing people say these words in a terrible accent (British or otherwise) that manages to mangle both the Japanese and English at the same time. I also don't use many English loan words when speaking Japanese because in the same way, I think it sounds silly. There are some that have almost become Japanese because they have been around for a while but there is usually a Japanese equivalent for whatever you need to say.They would be 7th graders (as there is up to 6th in elem). But I'd argue that there's no reason not to. Accent is another beast. You can fault someone for not trying hard on their accent, but it's not really that big of a deal. I personally work on my own pronunciation, but it's somewhat like singing. Some people are tone-deaf. I imagine it works the same with repeating someone's pronunciation.
I use the loan words of which I hear most often, even if there are other words. It's also helpful for us when learning as we can often get our point across without knowing the other word. Things like パン and サッカー have no real alternatives.
Of course sometimes you might use one words and other times another. It's all personal style.
Using the words on this list just seems normal, does it not?
Good example is エアコン vs 冷房. Both are totally fine but MOST people will probably say エアコン (or クーラー). I simply find myself speaking the words of those around me and don't see much of a point in taking a stand either way.
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - phauna - 2008-12-11
Well it's fine if you are American, all the loan words are American pretty much. First year of high school for me is the seventh grade. Try explaining that to another English speaker, or a Japanese speaker. In Japan we are all using a different English than at home, however Americans can get away with using almost all their usual English. We don't have middle school so there is no chuugakusei equivalent in my Australian English. If my choice is to adopt even more American vernacular into my vocabulary or just use some Japanese which precisely explains it, in Japan I will choose the Japanese. I already have to wrestle with the prawn/ shrimp dichotomy every other day.
Junior High, grade school, elementary school, college (to mean a university), major, public school (to describe a private school), etc. all day long I have to use these when they are not in my English. I'd rather complain about the state of English than Japanese, at least there are not ten different countries that speak Japanese. Would it kill English learners to watch just a couple of British movies or the BBC every now and then? I used to give my classes some Indian, Canadian, Kiwi and South African podcast listening exercises to see if they could decipher them. Do people really need to learn more and more bizarre American idioms, when they could be trying to understand all the English variety in the world? I get these advanced students who are fluent English speakers, but they can't understand the BBC news. What the hell?
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - Jawful - 2008-12-11
megaboyx Wrote:Yes yes, I know 7th graders. I had forgotten. Of course when talking about western foods, sports, and the like, the loanword is preferred. But I'm talking more about adjectives, verbs, and "catch phrases" used in business, science, etc. カタリスト or 触媒? スリム化された行政 or 簡素化された？ I think some people use English loanwords like we use French or something in English. Kind of to show off (which by the way is what it seems like some beginners are doing when they put Japanese into English). If you were really proficient, you would have no need to do that.So you're saying you avoid loanwords when speaking at a higher, technical based level of the language, say in a company setting... that seems different than avoiding the word クーラー.
And I've lived here for a few years now and met all kinds of new people coming into Japan. I can't say as people use those school-related words as a form of showing off. Just because one can or can't speak Japanese itself doesn't necessarily effect the way one uses English. It might, but not with such everyday words (everyday for those that use them). There are lots of people who put things like ね at the end of their sentences. I can't say as I see the point, and it seems to be a characteristic of people who still otherwise don't converse in Japanese. But that's just my observation.
So while you have a point, and it applies in some situations, I don't think it applies to simply using some common words in everyday speech. I tend to agree with phauna that it simply becomes a common language across an otherwise multi-platform English we're dealing with.
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - Wisher - 2008-12-11
Back to the original question...
My peeve is when learning the language, you spend so much time learning only to find out that most Japanese do not even speak that way. They do not use the -Mas form. And yet every learning aid out there starts with it. I understand why. I just think more emphasis should be placed on the less formal form. Or at least equal time should be spent or given in the teaching materials to both forms.
The only resources out there that I have seen that do this are the book, Japanese Sentence Patterns for Effective Communication, and the Tae Kim website on Japanese grammar.
Wisher
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - kazelee - 2008-12-11
I don't have a pet peeve with Japanese. I just have a pet peeve with the word pet peeve. What weirdo thought it?
Quote:This is mainly bred out because with Spanish/English speakers I see this a lot, and it is considered by the culture, whether mexican-american or just mexican, as a sign of laziness, lower intelligence, and immaturity. SpanglishLazy? Try cool, cabron!
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - QuackingShoe - 2008-12-11
But pet peeve is an awesome term!
Saying they don't use the formal form is a bit, well, strong. They use it quite a lot. Look at, for example, any news article, or wikipedia. Or listen to broadcasts, or speak to any Japanese individual... or read a manga?
Not that I disagree with your stance that more attention should be given to the base forms. Just the reasoning.
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - Wisher - 2008-12-11
kazelee Wrote:I don't have a pet peeve with Japanese. I just have a pet peeve with the word pet peeve. What weirdo thought it?Funny, I hated that word Pet Peeve when I first heard it too.
Quote:This is mainly bred out because with Spanish/English speakers I see this a lot, and it is considered by the culture, whether mexican-american or just mexican, as a sign of laziness, lower intelligence, and immaturity. SpanglishLazy? Try cool, cabron!
Lazy? Lower intelligence? My background is Mexican, but I was born in the USA. My first language may have been Spanish, but as an adult and living in the USA all my life, my English is way better than my Spanish.
Growing up in two cultures, things like Spanglish are a natural phenomenon that grow out of neccessity. As a kid, you are always trying to fit in. You do not really use Spanish except when speaking to your parents. And as a kid, who wants to speak to them anyway? (or adults for that matter) This is going to sound strange but it is weird speaking Spanish to your siblings. You just do not do it. Not even to your cousins or friends, unless they do not speak English and you are forced to.
Because of this, your Spanish is only so-so. When trying to explain something to the parents, you have to use an English word that is modified because you do not know the Spanish word for it. The funniest part, I have done this myself and seen others do it, you will even conjugate the word to make it sound Spanish. I remember this girl said, "Kick-kea la pelota" or Kick the ball. The word Kick is modifed. In Spanish, the word "to Kick" is patiar. In the imperitive form, or the command form, it is Patea.
This is not lazy. If anything, it is innovative. Lazy would be to give up and not even try to communicate.
I put all this to at least give a different perspective on the whole thing.
Wisher
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - phauna - 2008-12-11
QuackingShoe Wrote:But pet peeve is an awesome term!Learning -masu form recognition wise makes sense. however most of people's speaking time is in the casual form. You will have to know casual form much better than -masu form, because you have to produce it a lot more. Also, almost every movie, drama and tv show, except the news, uses casual form. So when most audio visual media uses it, and most people speak it, it should be the first thing learned.
Saying they don't use the formal form is a bit, well, strong. They use it quite a lot. Look at, for example, any news article, or wikipedia. Or listen to broadcasts, or speak to any Japanese individual... or read a manga?
Not that I disagree with your stance that more attention should be given to the base forms. Just the reasoning.
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - Wisher - 2008-12-11
phauna Wrote:Yeah, that's what I meant!!!QuackingShoe Wrote:But pet peeve is an awesome term!Learning -masu form recognition wise makes sense. however most of people's speaking time is in the casual form. You will have to know casual form much better than -masu form, because you have to produce it a lot more. Also, almost every movie, drama and tv show, except the news, uses casual form. So when most audio visual media uses it, and most people speak it, it should be the first thing learned.
Saying they don't use the formal form is a bit, well, strong. They use it quite a lot. Look at, for example, any news article, or wikipedia. Or listen to broadcasts, or speak to any Japanese individual... or read a manga?
Not that I disagree with your stance that more attention should be given to the base forms. Just the reasoning.
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - QuackingShoe - 2008-12-11
Already said I didn't disagree with that.
And anyway, every movie, drama, and tv show uses the formal form too. Simply in contextually appropriate situations.
Pet Peeves with the Japanese Language - Raichu - 2008-12-11
Pet peeves about Japanese? Don't get me started.
(1) The ridiculous writing system. Not only do they have thousands of characters, but most characters have two or more different pronunciations. What on earth were they thinking! They should use romaji and scrap everything else.
(2) All right, given (1) won't happen, can they at least go back to using hiragana in ambiguous situations. When I was a kid learning Japanese at high school, in those days it was actually considered wrong to write あした as 明日. The kanji were reserved for みょうにち. Now they've gone backwards and reintroduced those absurd kanji usages.
(3) Please put spaces between words. Or at least between phrases. I don't know when the space was invented. I know many ancient languages didn't have it. But come on, it's the 21st century!
(6) Inconsistencies between various 自動詞・他動詞 pairs. Like はじめる・はじまる are one common pattern, but あく・あける is another, and おかす・おきる is another, and みる・みえる is another, and so on. I'm sure every language has it's inconsistencies, but it would have been nice if there was a single common pattern.
(5) Minor annoyance... using 卵 for たまご when they already have 玉子. Using 湖 for みずうみ when it should really be 水海. And so on. But every language has that sort of thing.
You know it could be worse. You know how Japanese (and Chinese) can go vertically right to left as well as horizontally left to right? Well ancient Egyptian could go vertically right to left, vertically left to right, horizontally right to left, and horizontally left to right. Not so bad, I hear? Well get this. The way you distinguished left to right from right to left was that they drew the mirror images of each character. Like if you wrote "p" when writing left to right, but "q" when writing right to left. Now imagine if Japanese was like that...