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+--- Thread: When word is hiragana instead of kanji? (/thread-2195.html)
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When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - Yufina - 2008-12-07
Hi
I just found that there are some words that are written hiragana instead of kanji in my textbook.
Like kodomo, wakaru is written hiragana. Why?
Usually edict tells that word is written kana only, but now it don't tell. :S
Is there any site where I can find some common words that is written hiragana instead of kanji?
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - phauna - 2008-12-07
Both of those should be written in kanji. It could just be that your textbook only teaches a certain number or kanji, so some words without those kanji will be in kana. The edict advice is generally good in the regular use of Japanese, so you can probably trust it.
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - Yufina - 2008-12-07
How about 明日 (あした) or 昨日 (きのう)? Should they write with kanji?
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - haplology - 2008-12-07
Also, sometimes Japanese write things in hiragana or katakana or whatever - just to confuse the matter further. In menus, on signs, etc.
蓮根 or レンコン or れんこん for lotus root - all would be considered okay, I think.
I don't totally understand how it works, but I think sometimes certain writing is considered cooler, depending on context. So you could see a hiragana or kanji word written in katakana to seem more cool or exotic.
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - phauna - 2008-12-07
明日 and 昨日should be written in kanji. Just use the edict suggestions, if it says usually in kana, then go with kana, otherwise use kanji. The more you read of real things, the more you'll get a feel of it.
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - samesong - 2008-12-07
It depends on the word.
I've seen こども written as 子ども rather than 子供 numerous times, and わかる written in hiragana more often than I've seen it written in kanji (and Google agrees; 128 million hits for わかる, and only 72 million for 分かる）
If you aren't sure, do a Google search and see which yields more results.
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - playadom - 2008-12-07
nest0r Wrote:Also, 明日 (あす/みょうにち) and 昨日 (さくじつ) anyone? hehe - I only just learned that those alternative readings are *more* formal, not less.I've seen さくじつ in formal situations, but never あす or みょうにち. みょうにち seems vaguely familiar for some reason though.
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - playadom - 2008-12-07
nest0r Wrote:I wasn't trying to imply that they're not formal; I remember reading somewhere that みょうにち is 敬語for あした -- I was merely saying that [at least in my somewhat limited experience] they haven't appeared much at all.playadom Wrote:Does this mean you don't think those are formal? I only heard about the usage through Google results using romaji, so I'll take your word for it.nest0r Wrote:Also, 明日 (あす/みょうにち) and 昨日 (さくじつ) anyone? hehe - I only just learned that those alternative readings are *more* formal, not less.I've seen さくじつ in formal situations, but never あす or みょうにち. みょうにち seems vaguely familiar for some reason though.
For that matter, I see 本日[ほんじつ] pretty often too.
Update: I looked this up on a Japanese forum:
「あした」とはまずビジネスのシーンでは使わないですね。
よっぽどの知り合いでない限り。
せめて「あす」ですが「みょうにち」の方が失礼はないかと思います。
同じようにあさっても「明後日」になります。
Apparently, those two readings are in common usage -- just not in the situations I hear Japanese in. I also learned a new 敬語 from the forum: [みょうごにち] (as well as 一昨日「いっさくじつ」 for おととい]
Also see:
http://www.astro-bio.com/id/manner/manner0410.html
Very handy website, has a bunch of stuff on manners. Might help if I ever get around to going to Japan. Includes hilariously awesome articles like "レモンティーの
レモンはどうする？"
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - Jawful - 2008-12-07
あす is pretty common on the weather reports, I've noticed. Also, at a few of my elementary schools, all the kids seem to stay あす, where at others, they say あした. It seems, at least in my part of Japan, both are used. I don't think my friends use あす much though.
本日 is definitely common and used in formal situations/announcements/etc.
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - thermal - 2008-12-08
I once asked my Japanese boss this and I forgot her response, but she looked it up and claimed to find some grammar rule. I will ask her again when I work with her tomorrow.
In particular what caught my attention was こと which definitely has some rules surrounding it. In two of my text books I have seen it written as both kanji and hiragana, and by that I mean as both in the one text book, so there is some method to it.
I also find that 分かる is more commonly written as hiragana.
As Japanese students we tend to be quite anal about using kanji for everything to write proper Japanese, but I think for words like 分かる where even as hiragana it is very easy to understand Japanese people don't really care.
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - zodiac - 2008-12-08
Isn't "みょうにち" 明日 read with on-yomi?
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - furrykef - 2008-12-09
phauna Wrote:Just use the edict suggestions, if it says usually in kana, then go with kana, otherwise use kanji.I dunno about that. If I look up ある in Wakan, which uses EDICT and will hide kanji for "usually kana" words by default, both 在る and 有る will come up in the list. Generally, you should not use these kanji for ある and you will look ワープロ馬鹿 -- or worse, you'll look like a 変な外人 -- if you do.
When in doubt, I would tend to err on the side of using kana instead of kanji. Nobody will give you funny looks for writing 子供 or 分かる instead of 子ども or わかる, but nobody will give you funny looks for doing it the other way around, either.
Also, your IME will usually suggest the best choice first, although if its "smart" mode (Auto-Tuning in the MS IME) is enabled, which it probably is by default, it will usually remember the form you used last time and present that first, so you can't always depend on it. It also doesn't take into account that sometimes different kanji have different nuances of meaning; for のぼる, both 上る and 登る mean "to go up", but the latter means more specifically, "to climb, especially with hands and feet". 山に上る and 山に登る are two different things; the first is closer to simply "go up a mountain", e.g., by walking, though it probably doesn't exclude climbing. And finally, there's also 昇る, which is most often used in reference to the sun rising.
thermal Wrote:In particular what caught my attention was こと which definitely has some rules surrounding it. In two of my text books I have seen it written as both kanji and hiragana, and by that I mean as both in the one text book, so there is some method to it.事／こと is an odd case... it's generally preferred to write it in kana, but I've seen it written in kanji as well. It's perceived as more of a grammatical word like a particle rather than a noun (although it's definitely a noun), which is why it's often written in kana.
I wouldn't be so sure that there is a rule to it, even if they're often used alternately in the same textbook. There might be such a rule, though... perhaps 事 to emphasize the meaning of "thing", and こと when it behaves more like a particle? It's kind of difficult to really explain what I mean by that, and it's purely speculative anyway...
- Kef
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - shakkun - 2008-12-09
I think furrykef is right about 事. Just from my observation:
When it's being used for a grammatical function like a particle always use kana:
その映画は見たことある？
When it's being used as a noun you can use kanji (but kana is fine too):
そんな馬鹿な事するな！
This is just based on a lot of manga reading but it makes sense to me. Anyone know either way?
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - cameron_en - 2008-12-09
When I see a Japanese person use kanji for a word, usually I do the same. Sometimes other people would reciprocate the kanji I use with them. 綺麗（きれい） for example, it seems Japanese people write/type it like this only if I use it that way to them first. For a word like 此れ（これ） it just seems silly to write it in kanji though.
I know we (as kanji lovers) may have a tendency to show off our kanji skills but the feeling may be similar to when a foreigner uses an obsolete/difficult english word in conversation while at the same possessing only basic language skills, it's just weird.
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - furrykef - 2008-12-10
shakkun Wrote:When it's being used for a grammatical function like a particle always use kana:But compare:
その映画は見たことある？
When it's being used as a noun you can use kanji (but kana is fine too):
そんな馬鹿な事するな！
心配する事はない。
"There's nothing to worry about."
This is a line from the opening of ゼルダの伝説 神々のトライフォース (The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past). 事 is modified by a verb, but is written in kanji anyway, presumably since it has a pretty noun-like function, like "There's not a thing to worry about".
But then it also uses it like this:
マジックマントだ！ 姿を消す事ができるが、魔法メーターに気を付けろ！
"It's a magic cape! You can disappear, but watch your magic meter!"
Here, the 事 in 姿を消す事 seems to be grammatical...
- Kef
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - Evil_Dragon - 2008-12-10
Funny thing I saw on TV... It was a show about food (just like about 80% of Japanese television) and when one of the older guys said delicious, it was subtitled 美味しい. However when a younger guy said the exact same thing, it was subtitled おいしい. Maybe it just depends on personal taste. In some cases I use more Kanji than most Japanese people, in some cases I don't. For example, I like to write out animals in Kanji as opposed to Katakana because personally this slows down my reading a lot. It also tends to impress people, RTK was definately worth the effort.
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - furrykef - 2008-12-11
By the way, it turns out that the 付 in 気を付ける (see my previous post) is another one of those words that's often written in kana, but not so much that it'll seem strange if you use the kanji.
In fact, sometimes kana/kanji usage can be just downright weird. Look at the Japanese on the margin of this comic... the entire thing is in kana... except the 下 in 下さい, which is a verb suffix and therefore typically written in kana anyway! It seems downright backward! (Note that that comic was originally written in Japanese... I don't know if the margin text is exactly the same as the original or if it had its kanji replaced by kana.)
- Kef
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - mentat_kgs - 2008-12-11
Hi, I notice the same thing Evil_Dragon said. I know some people (in internet chats) that will allways use 100% of the kanji they know and people that avoid kanji a lot. It seems like personal taste.
In persona 4, when the kids are speaking, it is allways written in hiragana. When a weird character writes, it is allways katakana. When adults write, it uses mostly kanji. When an old guy talks, it uses all the kanjis possible.
I avoid such kanjis while other foreigners or kids are in the chat, but other than that I might be one of these rude people that write "有難う御座います".
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - gyuujuice - 2008-12-20
有難う御座います = ありがとうございます ？
I had to look up half of the kanji. ;\
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - mentat_kgs - 2008-12-20
^_^ live and learn.
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - furrykef - 2009-01-22
Old thread is old, but I find that it can be troublesome figuring out whether to write a word in kanji or not. The one I came across the other day is やさしい/易しい. It looks like it's used in kanji often enough to warrant putting the kanji version in my SRS, but just how common is it? How does one easily find the answer to this sort of question?
- Kef
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - Murjab - 2009-01-22
samesong Wrote:If you aren't sure, do a Google search and see which yields more results.Google searching is one of my favorite ways to test words/phrases/sentences. If I want to quickly get an idea if something is commonly used, a Google search that spits out a bunch of hits seems to be a decent indication.
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - pm215 - 2009-01-22
furrykef Wrote:Old thread is old, but I find that it can be troublesome figuring out whether to write a word in kanji or not. The one I came across the other day is やさしい/易しい. It looks like it's used in kanji often enough to warrant putting the kanji version in my SRS, but just how common is it? How does one easily find the answer to this sort of question?You could do worse than checking google hit counts:
やさしい 27,000,000
易しい 889,000
OK, in this case there's potential confusion with 優しい (31,800,000). But from those counts my guess would be that you want to be able to read 易しい but probably use the kana version when you write it.
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - theasianpleaser - 2009-01-22
samesong Wrote:If you aren't sure, do a Google search and see which yields more results.Google's just like the magic Eight Ball. It can tell you're future
Anyway, when it comes to whether hiragana/katakana/kanji is used, I say there are no rules. Just learn them all(how to read and/or write) because you'll see all variations in Japanese.
When word is hiragana instead of kanji? - EnjukuBlack - 2009-01-22
Remember that the way you write something in Japanese can convey a very different 'feel' or 'atmosphere.' As alluded to by Mentat, hiragana can lend a sense of childishness, and 'over-kanjifying' can create an image of old-fashioned.
So, although こと, when used as a grammatical element, tends to be written in kana, it can be written in kanji to give a sense of 'traditional' or 'old-fashioned' (as in furrykef's example of Zelda - it's supposed to be a medieval setting, no? - ergo, more kanji than our modern day and age).
It's been mentioned in this thread that formal Japanese will tend to use more kanji (ありがとうございます will rarely be written in kanji outside of very formal invitations and the like).
On the other end of the spectrum, when people are writing by hand, time is often of the essence. Thus, kana will be used in lieu of even common kanji simply because it's quicker to write. And when kanji are written, many of the strokes will be abbreviated, slurred or even left out altogether (anyone ever seen the handwritten form of the 'gate' radical? - it's like Heisig's 'hood' primitive with a short line bisecting the horizontal stroke!).
furrykef Wrote:How does one easily find the answer to this sort of question?Shame on you, furrykef! Who ever said Japanese would be easy?
Anyway, my short answer to your question: Read, read, read. In as many different genres as you can. Don't limit yourself to manga and video games. Or to newspaper articles. Include books, magazines, blogs, legal documents, instruction manuals, street signs, etc. The more you expose yourself to real, living Japanese, the more you will start to get an intuitive feel for what is conventional in which situation.
And remember that a Google search has its limitations as well. Any idiot can upload a webpage or build a blog on the internet. Just because Google is returning searches doesn't mean that they are all intelligent.
