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Progress report ( AJATT method ) - cjswanson1355 - 2009-01-26
600 here, all right. I can't wait to come back to this in a few months and see how far I've gone.
Progress report ( AJATT method ) - MeNoSavvy - 2009-01-26
wccrawford Wrote:Just to add my success to this post...Just out of interest what is the method that is similar to RTK that you used?
While I quit RTK, I did most of another method of learning the kanji that is similar. I also did several hundred in iKnow and another vocab program.
A few months ago (before iKnow) I couldn't read simple manga like Yotsuba& at all. (I understand maybe 1 in 30 words... It was torture.) Today, I can read 2/3-3/4 of each chapter without even considering a dictionary. It's enough to know what's going on and enjoy the chapter.
I haven't done any AJATT at all and I'm sure (if I could find the time and energy) it would have gotten me to this point even faster.
Progress report ( AJATT method ) - MeNoSavvy - 2009-01-26
gilozoaire Wrote:Just a quick update. I recently tried this test again:I agree, it would be good if there was some well designed experiments around that compared the various approaches.
http://www.mlcjapanese.co.jp/LevelCheck/Kanji/01.htm
The first time I passed it, I think I was at around 400 known kanjis (it includes meaning+readings), around a month ago. I scored 600 this time.
I compared that to the scores obtained in structured courses given in Belgium. Students of one particular institute view around 600 kanjis over 6 years. The scores of the most advanced students was in the 300-600 range. They mainly work with flashcards and learn kanjis with their readings. I hear the basic kanji book mentionned a lot.
Admittedly, this only tests kanji knowledge, and I'm sure their japanese is much better than mine. But as far as kanjis are concerned, it proves it is possible to progress very fast in that department, and that Heisig transfers well to learning sounds too.
I would be immensely interested if there were scientific experiments comparing Heisig to others methods, especially traditionnal study by learning radicals and phonological complements, or just rote memorization.
Personally I think there is room for something better than heisig. Some sort of interactive tool that combined the groupings of Kanji Odyssey, with some decent stories / mnemonics, along with the repetition / slick user interface of something like iKnow.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119321161/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
This study compared imagery based mnemonics for the learning of Chinese characters with simple rote memorization. They found that people who used mnemonics actually performed worse !!
Here is another webpage that discusses mnemonic techniques
http://www.memory-key.com/mnemonics/keyword_language.htm
I'm still looking for an academic article that reviews all the research in this area, and there actually does seem to be quite a lot (although not specifically with reference to Heisig). Unfortunately most of the summaries I found on the web seemed to lack impartiality, and over-simplified the research.
Progress report ( AJATT method ) - Nukemarine - 2009-01-26
I consider January 2008 as when I "really" started to study Japanese. Before then it was mishmash of Rosetta, Japanese for Busy People, Genki and Pimsleur. Never too far into any of them. July 2007 till January 2008 I consider myself doing and finishing RTK (with 80% in the last stack being my marker for "finished").
Anyway, it's been a year and a slow one at that (in my opinion) for learning Japanese. However:
1. Watched three Japanese dramas fully without English using Japanese subtitles (Last Friends, Last Christmas, Nodame Cantabile) and one without subtitles (GTO). Not saying I had full understanding, but enough to enjoy them. There are other shows I've watched, but not their entire season.
2. Read 12 books so far of 20th Century Boys.
3. Can sing 15 karaoke songs with 90% score or better (got 98% with "明日晴れるかな"). I can even sight read songs at times.
Oddly enough, the above has come about in the last 4 or 5 months. It just seemed something "clicked" and Japanese become a blast to read and watch entirely on its own without supplementary aids (prior knowledge, english subs, etc.)
Now, I consider my progress to be slow. Until the last 4 or 5 months, I've been trying to force myself to do UBJG or KO2001 or Tae Kim's. With a change up of how I learn and review, it's gone MUCH faster so now I'm ~1600 sentences in Anki. (not counting the UBJG and KO2001 sentences that I'm not reviewing anymore).
As I wrote elsewhere about this: the more I learned, the more I enjoyed stuff in Japanese, which encouraged me to learn more stuff. It became a complimentary cycle.
It still all goes back to what Khatzumoto says: Enjoy stuff in Japanese. I think that the sentence method can be more structured than he recommends, but that's just a personality thing. I also think the sentence approach can be done differently for the same reason. Then again, he doesn't preach strict adherence and changes up his approach as time goes on.
Progress report ( AJATT method ) - theasianpleaser - 2009-01-26
Nukemarine Wrote:I consider January 2008 as when I "really" started to study Japanese. Before then it was mishmash of Rosetta, Japanese for Busy People, Genki and Pimsleur. Never too far into any of them. July 2007 till January 2008 I consider myself doing and finishing RTK (with 80% in the last stack being my marker for "finished").Perhaps the forcing yourself through those things is what provided the foundation for the "click".
Anyway, it's been a year and a slow one at that (in my opinion) for learning Japanese. However:
1. Watched three Japanese dramas fully without English using Japanese subtitles (Last Friends, Last Christmas, Nodame Cantabile) and one without subtitles (GTO). Not saying I had full understanding, but enough to enjoy them. There are other shows I've watched, but not their entire season.
2. Read 12 books so far of 20th Century Boys.
3. Can sing 15 karaoke songs with 90% score or better (got 98% with "明日晴れるかな"). I can even sight read songs at times.
Oddly enough, the above has come about in the last 4 or 5 months. It just seemed something "clicked" and Japanese become a blast to read and watch entirely on its own without supplementary aids (prior knowledge, english subs, etc.)
Now, I consider my progress to be slow. Until the last 4 or 5 months, I've been trying to force myself to do UBJG or KO2001 or Tae Kim's. With a change up of how I learn and review, it's gone MUCH faster so now I'm ~1600 sentences in Anki. (not counting the UBJG and KO2001 sentences that I'm not reviewing anymore).
Progress report ( AJATT method ) - gilozoaire - 2009-01-26
Hey MeNoSavvy, are you a psychology student by any chance? You certainly seem to have that frame of mind too
I'll try to check my university's database... Maybe I'll get lucky but I doubt such an unacademical method would interest many researchers, since they usually focus on well-known, recognized techniques.
Progress report ( AJATT method ) - nest0r - 2009-01-28
I passed the 2000-card mark a little while ago, pretty awesome for me (each card averages 2-3 new words, to give an example of what they consist of). It took a third of the time (2 months) to get to 2000+ than it did to get to 1000, and it's actually getting easier and faster as I further refine my structure. I set out learning Japanese without disrupting my pre-existing avocations (media in both my native and Japanese languages), and vocation(s), and it's quite possible, I assure you. Good luck to others on the path, and I'll see you on the other side. ;p