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+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: Remembering the Kanji (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-7.html)
+--- Thread: Starting again... (/thread-202.html)
Starting again... - Sibyl - 2006-10-03
So. I started learning the Kanji at the start of this year. I got about 600 in, and then started on a course at work which ate up most of my study time. I still know the obvious ones I see on restaurant signs, but I've just started reviewing again and, frankly, I'm rubbish. I want to not be rubbish, because I've just started learning Japanese in my new job (I work at a university, so it's not too expensive) and I think it would be good to start with the kanji again if I'm going to be learning speaking and the kana - it will certainly be useful when I get onto the more advanced classes where we are taught the kanji.
Right now I'm considering just starting again at the start of RTK - there will be lots that I still remember and I don't think it will harm to bone up on the things I'm not very good at. Does anyone have any better ideas? Anyone else taken a longish (5/6 month) break from this and found a good way to get back on track?
(also - the forums are new from when I was last here. Good call!)
Starting again... - yorkii - 2006-10-03
if you have most of the basic ones learnt ok, it shouldn't take you long to get back into the swing of things using this site here along with studying from RTK1 yourself. i fully recommend this site to anyone interested in learning kanji using the heisig method. there really isnt a site as devoted to RTK1 and its mastery than this.
good luck.
Starting again... - Mighty_Matt - 2006-10-03
I started on RTK1 just over a year ago. I got about 300 in and then stopped due to breaking my arm and getting out of the habit. Then I came to Japan in march to be an english teacher. I planned to start again when I got out here, but never did and then this summer I found this site. Having not done any Kanji work for months I thought it would be interesting to see how many I remembered so I just put in the first chapter's worth and reviewed them. To my delight I remembered most of them so I did the second chapter and so on. I quickly found huge chunks that I didn't remember, but in two months I've caught up to where I was before and I've only done a bit here and there as I find regular time difficult to find.
I would definately recommend starting at the beginning and working your way through chapter by chapter. If you were doing the book correctly in the first place you'll find your stories flooding back as you go
Starting again... - ziggr - 2006-10-03
I'm also coming back to Heisig's RTK after a long break (2+ years in my case). I started at frame 1, and pushed through.
At first, the going was quick. I was surprised at how many stories I still remembered. I could add entire lessons to my new cards stack and review them with only one or two failed cards.
I also took this opportunity to change several stories, knowing that my old stories didn't work, and having some experience with what works and what doesn't in a story. And there were some amazing gems on this site that I just had to use: Bender for 工 craft (frame 76)? Mr. T for 人 person (frame 951)? I love those!
Those frames I knew progressed towards the "Four or more reviews" pile quickly, and never really took much time. This left most of my study time for new frames or for frames whose stories needed work.
It really helped to log in almost every day, review all expired cards, then study at least one new primitive's worth of new frames. This slow but consistent progress has kept me inching along and motivated. I'm already well past my previous attempts, and on pace to complete before Christmas 2006.
So my two recommendations:
1. Start at frame 1.
2. Frequent, consistent progress.
--Z
Starting again... - JimmySeal - 2006-10-03
Sibyl Wrote:I think it would be good to start with the kanji again if I'm going to be learning speaking and the kanaAre you saying that you learned 600 kanji and haven't learned the kana? The only reason I ask is that there was a discussion on that very topic going on here about a week ago.
Starting again... - cbogart - 2006-10-04
I did the first 300 or so, then took a 10-year break, and I'm back at it now. I threw about the first 150 on the new card pile, plowed through them, then started adding 10 a day since then. It's worked fine for me -- the easy ones didn't take long to flip through, and it was good to know what I remembered and what I forgot.
I definitely second Ziggr's suggestion of frequent progress. Do at least a few every day, and don't do big marathon days. I do 10 to 15 a day. Probably a more motivated person could do more, but don't burn yourself out.
Starting again... - Pangolin - 2006-10-04
It wasn't very clear if you used the RTK system the first time, but as you mention being on this site before, I assume you did. In that case, I think it's a good indication that regular reviewing is essential, and that if you take a big break, even with Heisig you're going to lose a lot of kanji; they are not "yours forever" (a phrase Heisig sometimes uses) just because you had good mnemonic stories, you have to use the the kanji regularly too. Review is only a (partial or full) substitute for reading and writing kanji every day like the Japanese do, but it does keep them in your mind. I think your experience is a good lesson to everybody, and no, I don't think there's a better way than to plough through them again and keep up the reviewing - and using.
I took a break of about 6 weeks, when I was in the 400s. This is the part where stories are pared down to "plots" (this is a concept of Heisig's that I think is weak). I felt I was doing very well up to that point and suddenly it was like wading through mollasses. It was this site that got me back on track. I did them all again, the first 300-400 very rapidly and the ones at the end I'd got stuck on I more or less did from scratch - I couldn't remember any of them. I'm at around 800 now and feel I got over that hump, and it's almost entirely down to this site.
I would say go through them all again as I did, then stick with this place! 毎日毎日! I think big breaks are out, kanji is for life not for Christmas (summer holidays, whatever!) Do something every day, and I agree, don't add too many at once.
Starting again... - astridtops - 2006-10-05
I did about 900 kanji the oldfashioned way, then took a break of about a year and a half without reviewing anything, and then restarted last June when I found this site. From the first 300, I remembered 225 (I remember the amount because of course they come back to haunt you in that amount after 3, 7, 14, 30 etc days...) - and most of the rest I got after looking at them once. I don't have stories entered for these because most of them never came up again as a failure. 300-600 was hit and miss (more miss at first, but I did pick them up faster than completely new ones). 600-900 I had almost completely forgotten, and had to relearn as if they were new.
In your case, I would simply start by trying the first 50 or so and see how many you remember. As long as you remember most of them, just keep adding 50 the next day. If you start failing too many, it's time to slow down, and add them in smaller chunks and pay more attention to the stories.
Starting again... - Sibyl - 2006-10-05
JimmySeal Wrote:Are you saying that you learned 600 kanji and haven't learned the kana? The only reason I ask is that there was a discussion on that very topic going on here about a week ago.That's right - I'll look that topic out in that case, thanks for the heads-up. I needed to do all my learning in a library, wanted to learn a language, but obviously didn't want to be talking to myself in a public place!
Pangolin Wrote:It wasn't very clear if you used the RTK system the first time, but as you mention being on this site before, I assume you did.Yes, always using RTK - I looked at some other books to start with, but the learning was so fast with RTK and I found Heiseg to be an engaging writer so I stuck with that. You're right about the plots, though, that was the thing it was difficult to puch through; without the silly little comments throughout the text, I didn't click with it to the same extent. That's where this site, and sharing the stories, is so useful. I think the 'plots kanji' are going to be the ones I've lost the most from, as once I got to my own stories things started being eaiser again.
...
I took a break of about 6 weeks, when I was in the 400s. This is the part where stories are pared down to "plots" (this is a concept of Heisig's that I think is weak).
Glad to hear from other people who took a break as well, that's very encouraging! 10 a day sounds perfectly doable, I was doing 20/hour at one point the first time round so pacing myself a bit better would be sensible now that I'm going back to it.
Starting again... - ziggr - 2006-10-05
astridtops Wrote:From the first 300, I remembered 225 (I remember the amount because of course they come back to haunt you in that amount after 3, 7, 14, 30 etc days...)Ah yes. Frames 1-100 just expired for me this morning. Nothing like waking up and seeing a review pile like that. In the past, when I saw more than 200 cards expired all on the same day, I broke the review into chunks of 100 or so per day. This spread the expiration dates out, so now I rarely see 200+ cards expire on a single day any more.
My desire to avoid a huge review pile is one reason why I try to add a little bit every day, rather than have big marathon days where I push through an entire 75-card lesson. Because in 3 days, those 75 cards will come due. And then in 7, 14, 30, and so on. Daily review also keeps the orange boxes from piling up. They pile up quick if you skip a 3-day weekend!
I wonder what life is like once all 2,042 RTKI cards are the green boxes, mostly expiring every 60 days in the "4 or more reviews" box, but with a few cycling through the other boxes with more frequent reviews. 2,042cards/60days=34cards/day, whichi is a very light dialy review, even if you add in a few failed cards. That seems quite manageable, leaving plenty of time to learn readings.
Starting again... - laxxy - 2006-10-05
Sibyl Wrote:Glad to hear from other people who took a break as well, that's very encouraging! 10 a day sounds perfectly doable, I was doing 20/hour at one point the first time round so pacing myself a bit better would be sensible now that I'm going back to it.I think it's best to start fast and then reduce the speed later as the review pile grows (and perhaps have review-only days once in a while).
I also sometimes deliberately leave piles unreviewed in order to break them into smaller pieces for the future. It might actually be a good idea to randomize the interval before the next review a bit in the higher piles, so that the cards do not stick together. Breaking piles should help learning too, as it is much easier to remember kanji once you've reviewed a few others located close to it in Heisig (ie. having the same primitives), and having them always come up for review together is not such a good idea.