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+--- Thread: iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking (/thread-1942.html)
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - dilandau23 - 2008-09-29
Well I am sure those interested have read my earlier impressions about the iPhone. For those that haven't to make a long story short, I went from a 10 year-old waiting for Santa to a 60 year-old trying to get those damn kids off his lawn. From love to hate in all its classic glory.
Well some things have changed since then. I won't say I have returned to "love" but I would say we now have a "friends with benefits" thing going on. The first thing that changed was the 2.1 update came out. Aside from the annoyance that the phone seems to lie about signal strength now (3 bars = 0), the update was really a step in the right direction. Input in Japanese (and English) is a lot snappier. I still get the random lag but nothing on the order of before. The 漢字変換 has been improved quite a bit. I still am not convinced its faster than a regular handset but it is good enough for my simple sentence Japanese mail, the notes I take, and dictionary look-ups.
I was against jailbreaking because I bought the AppleCare plan and I am sure it voids the warranty. I have never had an iPod last through two years without needing a replacement and I don't expect the iPhone to be any different. However, as some of you know, the mail delivery system in place for your softbank mail leaves a lot to be desired. Its just plain silly. Enter SBankNotify. This simple daemon makes the iPhone behave a bit more like it should by playing a sound and vibrating when the mail notification from softbank arrives. I know the only work around for non jailbroken phones is to buy the ridiculously overpriced MobileMe and forward their softbank mail to it (or give up using @softbank mail altogether).
I can imagine how the meeting between execs originally went.
Apple: We want to charge people for push mail
SB: What's push mail?
Apple: It's called "MobileMe" and mail will be received on the handset as soon as it arrives in the mailbox.
SB: Um...every handset in Japan has that already built in. No way people will agree to pay for it.
Apple: We are Apple! They will pay if we tell them to.
SB: No I am sorry we need to support "push mail" out of the box.
Apple: But our MobileMe
Waaaahhahaahaaa!SB: OK, calm down. How about we push a notification of mail message instead?
Apple: *Sniff*...with no sound?
SB: OK, with no sound.
Apple: Then we can have our store reps confuse Japanese customers so much they buy MobileMe without understanding they are being charged for what they already get. We are so happy!
Anyway, bottom line, with SBankNotify, the phone basically operates like a handset in Japan should. That alone was worth losing my warranty.
I still don't know if I would recommend the iPhone, but I could at least say that if you bought one I don't think you risk experiencing the same level of disappointment you might have a month ago.
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - alyks - 2008-09-29
Neat. I was thinking of getting an iPhone because I can't find other phones that can display JP characters, so this is helpful.
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - Jarvik7 - 2008-09-29
It's too bad Apple never hired a consultant who "gets" the Japanese mobile industry before releasing in Japan. I could have reduced the number of devices I carry by 1 (2 if they put a decent camera on it, 3 if there was an official epwing reader).
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - mentat_kgs - 2008-09-29
O_O' how many devices do you carry?
I'd love to have a device to do my reps while commuting. I wonder if the iphone is a good choice.
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - alyks - 2008-09-29
Jarvik7 Wrote:It's too bad Apple never hired a consultant who "gets" the Japanese mobile industry before releasing in Japan. I could have reduced the number of devices I carry by 1 (2 if they put a decent camera on it, 3 if there was an official epwing reader).Does that mean there's an unofficial epwing reader?
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - Jarvik7 - 2008-09-29
Yeah, but it doesn't work on 2.x as far as I know. There is a link somewhere on the forums here.
Normally I carry around a cellphone, iPod touch, digicam, denshijisho, and MacBookPro. (note that normally = going around the huge campus here). When traveling further than that I normally slim it down to cell, iPod, and digicam if I think I might take some pics. I'd probably bring my mini denshijisho too but I left it in my house in Victoria (which is 2 days by car from here).
If only it could be slimmed down to an iPhone (unlocked of course since I jump countries so much) and the MacBookPro :/
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - dilandau23 - 2008-09-29
Its called iDic and the author claims to be porting it to the official app store.
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - Jarvik7 - 2008-09-29
If I understand Appstore rules correctly, it would not be approved since it relies on external datafiles to parse but then again you could say that AirShare does the same.
I sure hope it does get approved though. I'd even pay for it. It's taking awhile for the hackers to figure out a jailbreak for the 2nd gen touch.
-edit-
In regards to doing reps, you can't do those either unless you have either wifi access or a jailbroken phone (which of course isn't possible yet on the new iPod touch).
I wonder if resolve has thought about making a Webapp version of anki. It would make using the www based anki a lot nicer on the iPhone/iPod touch (card prefetch?) and wouldn't involve the same problems that an Appstore version would.
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - dilandau23 - 2008-09-29
Jarvik7 Wrote:I wonder if resolve has thought about making a Webapp version of anki. It would make using the www based anki a lot nicer on the iPhone/iPod touch (card prefetch?) and wouldn't involve the same problems that an Appstore version would.He already stated that he thinks what he has in place is enough(simple phone interface). I believe he said he doesn't much care for web design. I get by just fine with what he has already made. Now I am mucking with the offline jailbreak version.
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - Jarvik7 - 2008-09-29
I agree that the current interface is enough, but it could really use some prefetching of the cards. With the latency on the network here drilling on the www interface takes easily 10x longer than drilling in Anki proper.
Webapps aren't really web-design anyways. You make them in much the same way as proper Appstore apps and they use the same interface elements. Remembering back to when I saw the announcement keynote it's basically drag & drop.
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - Ryuujin27 - 2008-09-29
Just a side note for iTouch/iPhone users who don't want to or are hesitant to jailbraking their devices: anki is currently being developed for a released in the AppStore.
Check it out: http://www.inzania.com/
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - saizen - 2008-09-29
can anyone give me a hint (dont have to risk linking it) to where i can go to jailbreak the iphone. If that program really does fix the crappy softbank mail lag then I am all for jailbreaking this phone. They really did a crappy job preparing this phone for japan. My mail lags like 10minutes sometimes...so gay!
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - Ryuujin27 - 2008-09-29
Google is always your best friend in those situations, saizen.
I'd start with "jailbreak iphone" and you may want to perhaps click the first possible link. Maybe.
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - saizen - 2008-09-30
haha thanks i tried google before and i came up with crap..but i guess i type in the wrong thing. Thank you kindly for the search recommendation wink wink.
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - dilandau23 - 2008-09-30
Ryuujin27 Wrote:Just a side note for iTouch/iPhone users who don't want to or are hesitant to jailbraking their devices: anki is currently being developed for a released in the AppStore.Is this project officially connected to resolve's Anki? If it isn't I wouldn't consider it because tweaks to one would probably not carry over to the other. However if it stays free and gets the job done it is a real possibility.
Check it out: http://www.inzania.com/
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - Jarvik7 - 2008-09-30
Resolve is aware of the project, but it isn't official.
I'm not so sure about the guy's reliability though. He was throwing around words like official and took donations for a high end macbookpro when a macmini or macbook or even imac would have sufficed for the needs of developing the app, at a lower price. It looks like he only got $340 out of the donation drive though so I guess no reason to be upset
Now it remains to be seen if this ever does actually hit the Appstore. I hope it does
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - resolve - 2008-09-30
Jarvik7 Wrote:I wonder if resolve has thought about making a Webapp version of anki. It would make using the www based anki a lot nicer on the iPhone/iPod touch (card prefetch?) and wouldn't involve the same problems that an Appstore version would.If you want prefetching, use the standard web interface. I have some changes in the pipeline which will, among other things, change the answer buttons to a horizontal format like the simple web interface, and thus using the standard web interface on your phone will become more feasible.
I have no desire to invest the time into making the website look like an iphone application, however. I'd rather spend my time adding useful features to Anki than polishing it for apple.
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - FutureBlues - 2008-09-30
It's great that someone went and put up a solution for Softbank's pathetic push notifications on Cydia but is it worth Jailbreaking if you've already moved over to something else (Yahoo! push)?
I don't know. I didn't get the Applecare (so my phone is only covered for a year, I guess) and I'm not that worried about jailbreaking it... but is there anything really compelling on the other side that makes it all worth it?
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - dilandau23 - 2008-09-30
FutureBlues Wrote:...a solution for Softbank's pathetic push notifications...but is there anything really compelling on the other side that makes it all worth it?I really strongly believe that the blame here lies with Apple. There is a fine push mail system already in place for all three JP carriers. The only reason I could come up with as to why they are not using some form of it out of the box is because I think Apple feared that allowing a carrier to offer push mail might encourage other carriers to do something similar and thus take business away from MobileMe. The lame push notification seems like a compromise to deal with the fact that all phones in Japan have push mail. I haven't heard of any other carrier using that notification system. That means it was written just for Softbank.
As for other compelling reasons, I am not sure if I can think of a bigger one than SBankNotify. That alone is huge! I wouldn't want to be the one who has to explain to a Japanese friend why my keitai address doesn't end @carrier.ne.jp I have a hard enough time getting people to believe @i.softbank.jp is not a mistake.
I am sure there are others who could offer up the other pros of jailbreaking better than me. I am content with just SBankNotify and the "real" offline Anki.
On a tangent someone should encourage the 偽物 Anki developer to change its name to avoid confusion.
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - Ryuujin27 - 2008-09-30
I was under the impression that the guy who is making the official app is the same guy who had made the unofficial one (meaning your iphone had to be jailbroken). However, I could be wrong about that.
Either way, I'm definitely looking forward to it, and really hope he sees it through all the way!
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - FutureBlues - 2008-09-30
Really? I feel like it's Softbank's fault. Their whole setup for iPhone email is just terrible. No SSL, only the last what, 2 months of messages or something on their mail servers, giving us an address (@i.softbank.jp) that other carriers consider a "PC" address in their spam controls, etc.
None of that has anything to do with Apple.
My guess is that each carrier's push mail is proprietary as hell and when Apple came to them and said, look, we have push email on this handset too, based on standards compliant protocols, Softbank decided they didn't want to spend the money on setting up real push servers for a tiny subset of their users and just instead ended up failing to do much of anything right.
Why they can push me SMS that vibrates my phone and makes a sound when they want to send me their stupid customer service satisfaction surveys, but can't do the same with my email is beyond me. (And said surverys, which are supposedly "formatted for my iPhone" aren't even formatted properly for a freaking computer browser.)
While Softbank is better than DoCoMo and AU in a lot of respects, I think they're still stuck in that proprietary Japanese cell phone service paradigm when it comes to actually dealing with Apple's phone and all the things it can do.
(The reason I don't think Apple is purposely squashing push here (besides what I've said above) is that SMS messages (which, in the States are basically used the same way email is used here: short back and forth messages) do trigger the proper verbal alerts. Why would Apple bother try and take away almost identical functionality via a contract with SB? MobileMe isn't even a blip on the radar here in Japan and yet even in America, you don't see Apple fuxing with SMS.)
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - Serge - 2008-09-30
What's the obsession with being distracted by a sound every time an email arrives?.. Checking it once a day is generally enough: whoever needs you urgently will just call.
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - FutureBlues - 2008-09-30
Serge Wrote:What's the obsession with being distracted by a sound every time an email arrives?.. Checking it once a day is generally enough: whoever needs you urgently will just call.Given that no one I know has more than 60 minutes (I have 0 minutes prepaid) or so on their plan (but does have unlimited or near so email) everyone here usually just emails when we start making plans, or if we're looking for someone, or trying to meet somewhere.
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - Jarvik7 - 2008-09-30
Serge Wrote:What's the obsession with being distracted by a sound every time an email arrives?.. Checking it once a day is generally enough: whoever needs you urgently will just call.Every Japanese person I know uses their keitai 90% for email, generally only making a call when it's to their (non keitai owning) parents or a business. The idea isn't to use it for your main email address but as a more functional version of SMS.
iPhone two months out and why I was wrong about jailbreaking - dilandau23 - 2008-09-30
Ryuujin2 Wrote:I was under the impression that the guy who is making the official app is the same guy who had made the unofficial oneThere are two Anki programs for the iPhone both currently require a jailbreak. Currently one is from Resolve and one is from inZania. Resolve is the creator of Anki. inZania claims to be developing a AppStore version of Anki. I am not sure how he can even get away with that. I suspect a lot of Anki libraries are published under GNU which I was led to believe is not AppStore compliant. This sort of confusion is why I think the inZania program should get a name change. It is going to get pretty confusing pretty fast.
FutureBlues Wrote:Really? I feel like it's Softbank's fault...Not really interested in a long debate of who's fault the SB mail thing is. The bottom line is the way it comes out of the box sucks. But I will indulge it for one or two rounds. The first thing I want to point out. SMS is totally free (internally) for Softbank users. In other countries, they seem to charge by usage. That means excessive use of it can rack up a premium. Email is free everywhere (except sorta kinda Japan mobiles but that fee can be largely avoided with the correct price plans).
Everything on the phone was designed by Apple. That means if the phone vibrates or rings when you get an SMS it is because Apple designed it that way. You can pick your SMS tone because Apple built it that way. The only sound you can get for an email arrival is a short quiet "ding" once the mail is in the phone mailbox. That is the way Apple made the phone, standards compliant push mail or not. The non-configurable email sound already sucks. That is Apples fault.
Then we have the mail notification that you do receive from Softbank. That was added to the iPhone specially to accommodate Softbank. No other mail service anywhere in the world uses it(to my knowledge). Why would they go to the trouble to write that specially for Softbank and not add a sound? Did Softbank request no sound? That doesn't sound likely. If you go to the Apple store in Ginza or Shibuya, you can see all the reps plugging MobileMe as a way to get your Softbank mail as soon as it arrives and play the sound. Otherwise how could they market it in Japan? I also know a Japanese couple who bought iPhones, they bought MobileMe because they felt like they had to. All of these combined led me to my conclusion.
I agree with you about all of the carriers in Japan being rather unsavory. In this case though I just can't see any logic in what was done unless I consider the MobileMe element.