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+--- Thread: The Movie Method of learning onyomi. (/thread-1768.html)
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - Thora - 2008-10-01
Regarding learning onyomi in isolation:
Katsuo Wrote:This suggests that someone who has learned the on'yomi should be able to predict them correctly in unknown words about 90% of the time.Stats is a distant memory for me, but wouldn't this mean that in a 2 kanji word the chance of getting it correct would then be about 80%. That sounds high, but if you look at in terms of misreading 2 words every 10 words... (There was an epic battle on this topic last year which went nastily sideways. No need to go there, I just wanted to share a comment made (I think) by JimmySeal which made an impression on me).
[edit - I think the chance of correctly guessing the meaning of compounds in newspapers is closer to 50%, even less.]
Regarding "The Movie Method" TM :-): I'd like throw the idea of after effects into your discussion of efficiency and effectiveness.
As we read more, we process complete words not individual kanji. But before that occurs, when we see individual kanji, I believe we have an unconscious "sense" of the kanji - the sum total of all previous associations we've made. Its a fuzzy mix of all the onyomi, the kun yomi, the Heisig keyword, the vocab we've learned and their meanings, etc. And that "sense" evolves with input. So I think it makes sense to keep this batch of input reasonably pure.
Adding lots of arbitrary (and sometimes elaborate) layers of associations such as English words, movies, etc. might end up being mental flotsam and jetsam in the future. Sure, that clutter will eventually go away (more time), but consider why one would want to add it in the first place ....unless it's truly necessary.
Add: I realize this caution applies to RTK as well. For me, the efficiency benefits of RTK outweigh the temporary problem of having distracting English keywords and weird stories associated with the kanji. At least the keywords, unlike movies, reflect the meaning of the kanji (for the most part) which can be useful. (Note: non-beginners can try using RTK with Japanese prompts to avoid the English keyword problem.)
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - QuackingShoe - 2008-10-01
nest0r Wrote:"A sentence has a kind of rhythm to it that will actually make the reading quite easy to remember, generally speaking."Yeah. All the time. I think it's like remembering a song. Language has a melody, so words in a context you've seen before are easier to remember.
Anyway... I think it's more or less patent that using a method like this after having already finished RTK is inefficient (from experience, learning an onyomi in context takes effectively no time and builds intense connections). Doing it in the first place is another matter. But whaaaat the hell does it matter? It's obvious why someone would do it, they want to do it, it's NOT that inefficient, and it gives them some kind of comfort zone. Get over it. Unless it's a language course where you learn the て form in your third year and don't expect to learn ために until your fifth, efficiency isn't really such a big deal. Most efficient method is the one that actually keeps you studying instead of putting it off because you don't like doing it or quitting altogether. Hell, I hate mnemonics like this to the extent that, even if this was the most efficient method by leagues and bounds, I would most likely never ever do it. And I don't think it's wrong that I wouldn't.
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - alyks - 2008-10-01
Thora Wrote:Regarding learning onyomi in isolation:I'm finding keeping it "pure" really doesn't matter. I'm beginning to rely more and more on phonetic components to give me reading and I'm really accurate here because I'll know if it's right or wrong. In a sense, my movies really become something I'll only use to fallback on. I only need to reference them once before the word and compound reading sets in fully. I feel like I'm moving toward what you describe really quickly.
Regarding "The Movie Method" TM :-): I'd like throw the idea of after effects into your discussion of efficiency and effectiveness.
As we read more, we process complete words not individual kanji. But before that occurs, when we see individual kanji, I believe we have an unconscious "sense" of the kanji - the sum total of all previous associations we've made. Its a fuzzy mix of all the onyomi, the kun yomi, the Heisig keyword, the vocab we've learned and their meanings, etc. And that "sense" evolves with input. So I think it makes sense to keep this batch of input reasonably pure.
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - Thora - 2008-10-01
alyks Wrote:I'm finding keeping it "pure" really doesn't matter. I'm beginning to rely more and more on phonetic components to give me reading and I'm really accurate here because I'll know if it's right or wrong. In a sense, my movies really become something I'll only use to fallback on. I only need to reference them once before the word and compound reading sets in fully. I feel like I'm moving toward what you describe really quickly.So shall we call mine 'The Keepin' It Pure Method'? Sounds promising, don't you think? :-) Perhaps I didn't really get it. Is the process itself (of trying to assign movie associations to kanji) is meant to be enough to memorize readings. In other words, one isn't meant to later rely on those associations (at least not more than once?). Also, given your experience with phonetic components, would you recommend using the movie approach only for those kanji for which the phonetic components don't help?
I admire your stamina and original thinking. You seem to have progressed very quickly. Speaking of which, I'd best return to my real work.
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - mentat_kgs - 2008-10-01
Tobberoth Wrote:IMO, saying "Oh, 公? It's read "kou" as in 公開." makes more sense than saying "Oh, 公? It's read "kou" because when I see it, I think of that hilarious scene in Azumanga Daiou where Chiyo was speaking okinawan."You are totaly correct here. I can't agree more.
I remember 公 from 公園. Thas was a word I already know from watching so much japanese television.
But sometimes I don't know a word to rely on. That time I'll use the movie method.
Some people are starting japanese with no previous knowledge at all. They dont have 公園 to rely on.
Tobberoth Wrote:I personally think 公開 is easier to remember, but that's probably where we all differ since you guys prefer the movie method.Yes it is personal. For you, that know a lot o japanese is very easy to do that.
But for some of us, for wich japanese is yet an alien language it is a hard way to do it.
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - alyks - 2008-10-01
Thora Wrote:So shall we call mine 'The Keepin' It Pure Method'? Sounds promising, don't you think? :-) Perhaps I didn't really get it. Is the process itself (of trying to assign movie associations to kanji) is meant to be enough to memorize readings. In other words, one isn't meant to later rely on those associations (at least not more than once?). Also, given your experience with phonetic components, would you recommend using the movie approach only for those kanji for which the phonetic components don't help?Er, mostly, it's enough, I suppose. Through a combination of knowing the phonetic components so well and having a very strong emotional connection to where I put them all, I don't have to recall much to remember the reading. I can just see a kanji and recognize the combination of elements, that's as far as I need to go.
As for using it only for ones with phonetic components, I would say no. A) Ones you don't think are useful are still useful to me because I know all the exceptions as well. B) The only reason that I know them so well, I think, is because I learned them all. I know one-kanji components, as well as very common ones.
It's a bit hard for me to describe it, because I just kinda do all of it unconsciously. I pretty much don't have to think too much about what a kanji's reading will be, they're just there. I suppose this is what you mean by "keeping it pure".
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - Nukemarine - 2008-10-15
Well, I'm tired of all these methods (Kanji Town, Kanji Chain, Movie Method) being bandied about without a lot of examples people can draw from.
I don't think it's too important to list the actual chains/locations (yet). Just give what movie/book/show/music video/manga/etc. you created for the On yomi. If you can give the reason you picked that item for that on yomi, that'd be even better.
Here's what I got so far (ordered by on yomi count in Trinity)
(43) カン - "Ocean's Eleven" (think of the big con they pulled) - Alyks example
(34) トウ - "Lord of the Rings" (think about the big toe of the Hobbits)
(21) サイ - "Con Air" (think Cyrus the Virus) -
(08) コク - "Pulp Fiction" (think of cocaine) - Alyks prime example
(05) ダイ - "Die Another Day" (think of Die in the title) -
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - Nukemarine - 2008-10-22
Here's one of mine. I thought it'd be easier if I organized the kanji in the movie order, so it's easier to recall all of them.
[ダイ Die Another Day]
大 large
題 topic
台 pedestal
代 substitute
第 No.
You see the James Bond in caught by a [大 large] dog.
In the prison scene, you see the female guard take a bamboo stick and whack Bond, asking ?WHAT is your [第 No.] and name little brother? (You see the lady with a BAMBOO stick making DOLLAR signs on Bond).
After the credits, you see Bond crossing the bridge, exchanging looks with the diamond face guy. They are being [代 substitute] with each other is a prisoner exchange (you see BATMAN guarding both with an ARROW at the ready).
In debrief, where Bond has a beard and no shirt, M takes the newspaper and whacks Bond (JUST SO) on the (HEAD) saying ?Have you scene this headline[題 topic] , Bond?). Your capture weakened us.?
Lastly, being sent to Iceland, Bond sees this enormous ice statue, which he has his sonic ring destroy leaving just ELBOW, MOUTH laying on the large [台 pedestal]
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - Nukemarine - 2008-10-22
Here's a larger one using a TV show. It concentrates most on the mini-series with a bit of iconic imagery from later episodes.
タイ ?Colonel Tigh? from ?Battlestar Galactica?
泰 peaceful
耐 -proof
帯 sash
態 attitude
対 vis-a-vis
怠 neglect
体 body
退 retreat
逮 apprehend
貸 lend
待 wait
滞 stagnate
胎 womb
太 plump
替 exchange
隊 regiment
BSG starts off with a [泰 peaceful] scene of the ambassador sitting by a BONZAI TREE on his desk, eating a bowl of RICE.
Number six walks in, asks if he?s alive, then says [耐 ?proof] it. You see her COMB his hair back, and her lips GLUED to his, even as the station is destroyed.
Here you see Adama is his [帯 sash] practicing the decommissioning speech.
Ah, at the poker game you see the Starbuck has a serious [態 attitude] problem. She has too much ABILITY, but here HEART is broken too easily.
Uh oh, now she got in a [対 vis-a-vis] with Colonel Tigh. He makes fun of here in a SCOTTISH accent, she makes fun of his sniffing GLUE early in the morning.
On Caprica, you see the future Madame President in the doctor office. He asks how she [怠 neglect] to look after her breasts for five years. She says she was on a PEDESTAL with the President, who had her HEART in love, so she neglects herself.
Number 6 is talking to Gaius. She tells him her [体 body] is just a BOOK, in that you can destroy it (imagine BATMAN ripping the BOOK), and another will be produced with the exact same information inside.
After the attacks, the gathered civilian ships must [退 retreat] or be destroyed. Imagine a ROAD of SILVER ships. Or SILVER are those ships with jump engines that are not destroyed.
Gauis makes the Commander think the PR guy is a Cylon. The PR is walking down the ROAD of a Hallway, where the marines have made a SIEVE to [逮 apprehend] him.
Near the end of the mini-series, Adam does not [貸 lend] his book to the President. He says you LEND sea shell CURRENCY, maybe SUBSTITUTE for LENDING, but you give books.
In 33, every time the Cylons show up, Galactica must [待 wait] until the other ships can leave. It is the SPARTAN COLUMN, waiting to save the TEMPLE humanity.
In WATER, the WATER has been sabotaged. Here, you see Lee squeeze his SASH for more [滞 stagnate] WATER.
Later in Season 1, you see Boomer and Helo, her FLESH pressed against the PEDESTAL. No wonder she gets something extra in her [胎 womb]
At the end of Season 3, you notice how [太 plump] Lee has gotten. Probably because he DROPPED the habit of walking his DOG.
Damn, one year of misery, then the [隊 regiment] of Cylons show up. They march past guard BOARS on a path to the central TOWER where the President waits to surrender.
Oh, this is trouble, you see Starbuck [替 exchange] her HUSBAND for Dee?s HUSBAND each DAY. Talk about drama.
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - alyks - 2008-10-22
Very cool. I might have to put some of this on the website if that's cool with you. I also might make another example here soon.
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - Nukemarine - 2008-10-22
Please, by all means. With more examples, perhaps more people will become interested. I'll try to post more as I go along. It seems to cement more in my head by writing out the stories. However, that does take some effort.
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - Nukemarine - 2008-10-29
Here's my examples for ケン. I used South Park: "Oh My God! The killed ケンny!". Now, as this is a TV Show (like Battlestar Galactica with たい), it's important to have set LOCATIONS with your scenes. Unlike a movie, which has a flow from scene to scene, here the Movie Method takes the location which is important in Kanji Town. So if you use Simpons, a lengthy comic book series, Seinfeld, etc set location will help cement all the parts (just a theory on my part, feel free to ignore).
Looking at this, I wonder if commercials would be great for the 2 or 3 kanji onyomi sets?
Anyway, here's the pieces (not arranged, but feel free to arrange the stories as if you're touring South Park).
In Dr. Mephisto's house, the boys 見 see a large EYEBALL walking on LEGS.
At the Football Field of the school, think of the gay 犬 dog sparky.
I imagine the episode, outside Kyle's house, they 建 build a tower to heaven to see KENny.
I see Southpark as a vague 県 prefecture. Maybe on the City Limits sign, you see EYES dangling on LITTLE HOOKS to let you know how welcome you'll be.
At Kenny's Trailer, just imagine Cartman yelling 'Respect my 権 authority?. Picture him beating a PEGASUS with a TREE while doing it.
At the Baseball Park, scene where KENny tries to catch a STONE with both HANDS. Sadly, he's crushed, and you see rats come and 研 polish the stone.
I think of Mr. Slave (Princess, Crotch) is the sign of 賢 intelligent in the town. Although in Garrison's room, he wears leather CLAM SHELLS.
Mr. Slave (Slave and Crotch) is treated 堅 strictLY by Garrison. He's always on the DIRT (ground) in class.
In the pilot at the Train Crossing, due to the 件 affair of one COW being turned inside out, Officer Barbrady (person) is chasing after the COWS, .
After the boys BUILD that skyscraper to Heaven, they find KENny returns 健 healthy. Guess in heaven, they could fight BATMAN for Kenny's soul.
At the Movie Theater, the boys asks for 4 券 ticket to ?Terrence and Phillip?. You can imagine them getting QUARTER price by using a KNIFE.
Ah, the Mayor and Officer Barbrady debate each's 圏 sphere of influence in her office, SURROUNDED by calamanity, they still read the SCROLL.
I keep seeing the kids in the bus being attacked by the monster. Here, it grabs a kid in a SPIDERMAN outfit, and wraps his FLESH using 絹 silk produced from it's MOUTH.
In a halloween episode (evil pets), in Stan's Basement, Mrs. Marsh 懸 suspend the cop Barbrady (think PREFECTURE rep) using a DANGLING THREAD. The HEARTS below him are from less fortunate victims.
In the movie, during the News Interview, Ms. Brauflowski wants to suspend the 憲 constitution and ban free speech.
This kanji reminds me of the SCYTHE of Death. In that episode, at Stan's dinner table, Grandpa is 兼 concurrently the liveliest of all yet wants to die.
Again, think of Death Episode,in Stan's bedroom, Grandpa is 謙 self-effacing with Stan, trying to TALK him into killing him which CONCURRENTLY will damn Stan and Grandpa.
Somehow, I imagine Jimbo and Ted going down SOUTH to mexico and 献 offering a DOG for fireworks.
In the movie, at the New York Office I can see Ms. Broflawski arresting Terrence and Philips using 剣 sabre/saber instead of guns. (maybe picture T&P defending themselves with an awl).
After Terrence and Philip are captured at the New York Office (their AWLs taken away), you see Conan jump out a 険 precipitous (narrow) window and fall out the SKYSCRAPER
In the underpants Gnome scene, I see the boys 検 examination a TREE with an AWL, finding a way into the gnome lair.
Imagine Cartman at Kenny's trailer yelling ?KENny! I said your family is 倹 frugal! Poor I Say? Guess you can see Cartman dressed as Cart BATMAN, while Kenny settles for the AWL wonder?
At the Farm Field (after catching the cows), it's easy to see Officer Barbrady 験 verification that it's a HORSE by going in the rear end with an AWL. ?Just leave me with my dignity?.
In ?Return of 'The Lord of the Rings' to the Two Towers?, you know the 4 MAESTROS (the boys in costume) are 遣 dispatch to take the PRECIOUS (porn video they think is LOTR) down the ROAD to the two towers video store
After the 4th of July episode (ash snake), Chef 顕 appears at the school yard after being gone for 2 SUNDAYS in a ROW. All the HEADS turn around and APPEAR in Blackface ?All right, all of you line up so I can kick all your asses?
Since Crab people is like Pod people (that come from 繭 cocoon), I just see the crabs in the New York Office coming out of the 繭 cocoon of the fab five's skin. Just imagine the ?metro sexual? guys wearing FLOWERY outfits, fur HOODS, nice THREADS, and the BLING BLING of firefly insects.
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - saizen - 2008-10-29
ahhha thnx nuke for the example...all this time i hadn't a clue what this method was. I mean everyone was talking about but not actually saying what it was. So it is reminicent of naming a primitive "spider man" or "mr. t" and just working the story to match each kanji with that primitive. Very smart and clever idea...now to actually initiate it. How long did it take you to learn all the readings...50days was it?
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - alyks - 2008-10-29
Er, um, there is a website on how the method is done. It was at a rate of 50 a day for fifty days.
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - Tobberoth - 2008-10-29
When I learn Chinese in a few years, I might actually try this technique, I see it as something which could be immensly useful for Chinese in particular... I mean in Japanese you have tons of pronounciations for kanji, so while it's great to learn one for every kanji, there's still much to do. But in Chinese, most hanzi have but one pronounciation... this technique you basically give you the ability to read any Chinese out loud.
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - timcampbell - 2008-10-29
Tobberoth Wrote:When I learn Chinese in a few years, I might actually try this technique, I see it as something which could be immensly useful for Chinese in particular... I mean in Japanese you have tons of pronounciations for kanji, so while it's great to learn one for every kanji, there's still much to do. But in Chinese, most hanzi have but one pronounciation... this technique you basically give you the ability to read any Chinese out loud.If you become fluent in Japanese first, you may not need to use another method - just apply one of the readings you already know. I am slowly picking away at Chinese, though Japanese remains my focus, and the readings are sometimes very easy, since the Chinese reading is often similar to Japanese onyomi pronunciation.
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - Nukemarine - 2008-10-29
saizen Wrote:ahhha thnx nuke for the example...all this time i hadn't a clue what this method was. I mean everyone was talking about but not actually saying what it was. So it is reminicent of naming a primitive "spider man" or "mr. t" and just working the story to match each kanji with that primitive. Very smart and clever idea...now to actually initiate it. How long did it take you to learn all the readings...50days was it?As Alyks said, he learned at a rate of 50 per day. So that's learning the writing, recognition and pronunciation of the Kanji. Granted, a "per day" number is misleading. A "per hour" gives a better grasp of what you can expect given your personal work load. I'm learning at a MUCH, MUCH slower rate (only 100 or so into it).
Example: I did 30 new kanji per day, but actually that was 15 per hour as I only did 2 hours of studying a day (so that was reviewing and learning new kanji). Someone with 8 hours a day might get 100 to 120 kanji in.
For the movie method, as I already "know" the kanji for the writing and recognition, I've been approaching this in a less controlled fashion. In iKnow, words will come up where the onyomi/kanji connection is giving me troubles, so that gets me in the mood to pull out the movie method. Well, since I'm doing one kanji, I'll do all of them for that onyomi.
Another thing, I don't have to sweat putting in the primitives into the movie. The keyword/kanji connection is pretty strong for me now that just the word placed in a scene can connect it for me. However, for the examples, I try to put in a primitive breakdown. Basically, this method seems to work even for those of us that are done with RTK.
With that, for those that have already learned kanji via other methods (RTK, DeRoo, Other), the movie method may be useful for onyomi that connect to five or more kanji. Any less than that, simple memory could suffice. Still, I'm pulling all this out my rear end as I'm only 100 kanji into it. The importance of sequential flow and location of scenes may change as I get into it.
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - stoked - 2009-01-18
Is anybody still using this method? With what results? It sounds very interesting...
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - alyks - 2009-01-18
stoked Wrote:Is anybody still using this method? With what results? It sounds very interesting...I don't know how much people are using the method, but I wrote about how much it's helped me on the website. http://drmoviemethod.blogspot.com/2009/01/my-life-after-movie-method.html
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - mentat_kgs - 2009-01-19
I am using a weird crossbreed. Because when the movie method apeared, I already had RTK in my pocket. If you have previous experience with mnemonics, I strongly recomend the movie method over RTK.
The bad thing on using the movie method is that you won't have the stories from this site =/
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - DeadLugosi - 2009-05-19
Ok, I've been reading this (almost dead) topic and although I have only skimmed through the last two pages, I feel I've got something to say about critics of the movie method:
haven't you noticed that most criticisms are just variation of the critics Heisig method gets?
I mean:
"What's the point of knowing the readings if you don't know the compounds?" is a variation of "What's the point of knowing the kanji if you don't know the readings?" (which is itself a variation of "What's the point of knowing something if you don't know everything?")
"What about multiple readings?" is a variation of "What about relatively complicated kanji which cannot be broken into primitives?" which is close to "What's the point of having a compression algorithm if there is one possible file which wouldn't be significantly compressed by it?" (try compressing a compressed file, you might even get a bigger file)
I can't think of other critics I read right now but I hope you see my point: lots of critics of this method aren't really convincing, and I'd classify them as sophisms.
I started using the movie method myself three days ago. I've already gone through RTK1 so here is my criticism: the movie method is made for people who want to learn both RTK1 and the on readings, not for people who have already done RTK1 and want to learn the reading: you have to make 2000+ "stories" again, which takes about two months (or more), if you've finished RTK1, use kanjitown: same method but using kanji keywords instead of primitives keywords and making stories for readings instead of kanjis. This will probably be much faster.
I'm myself going to change, I'll still be using movies instead of towns because I love the cinema but I will create one story (a synopsis, basically) per film using all the keywords of the kanji which have the film's reading (or maybe make several very little stories which only contain the kanji keyword as an important word).
I think when I learn Chinese I'm going to use a strange mix of both this method (for hanzi I'll already know) and the "classical" movie method (for those I've never seen while studying Japanese) ...
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - Thora - 2009-05-19
DeadLugosi Wrote:[...] I feel I've got something to say about critics of the movie method:Not sure the parallel makes sense because the purpose is different for the 2 methods. Ask yourself what the purpose of memorizing readings in isolation is. Then figure out how effectively it achieves that purpose.
haven't you noticed that most criticisms are just variation of the critics Heisig method gets?
I mean:
"What's the point of knowing the readings if you don't know the compounds?" is a variation of "What's the point of knowing the kanji if you don't know the readings?" (which is itself a variation of "What's the point of knowing something if you don't know everything?")
"What about multiple readings?" is a variation of "What about relatively complicated kanji which cannot be broken into primitives?" which is close to "What's the point of having a compression algorithm if there is one possible file which wouldn't be significantly compressed by it?" (try compressing a compressed file, you might even get a bigger file)
I can't think of other critics I read right now but I hope you see my point: lots of critics of this method aren't really convincing, and I'd classify them as sophisms.
Beginners are seeking information on which to base their own choices. Some comments in other threads show that some beginners don't yet have a clear sense of the method's usefulness and limitations. The goal is to help them, not to be a naysayer. [Shunn
] The fellow who created the movie method, Alex, asks for feedback and has already made some changes and added clarification to parts. The helpful criticism in this thread doesn't go far enough, imo. Learning isolated readings:
*has limited benefit,
*takes time and effort, and
*has some potential downsides
Memorizing readings can save some time by allowing you to look up kanji (sometimes a word) by sound rather than by form when you are reading printed material. The other stated benefits (phonetic components and ease of remembering words) are not exclusive to this method.
It feels good to be able to guess a reading. I can see why folks might want to know readings. It might makes sense, then, to learn readings for a subset of kanji (eg, single On kanji for which the phonetic components are indicative, 1On -0Kun kanji), but not the entire 2000. Being selective might be more effective and efficient.
But beginners need to understand that it will still be necessary to look up (or otherwise confirm) a word's pronunciation. The chance of accurately guessing a compound in a newspaper is just less than 50% (most On readings are found in compounds). Even if it were 70%, you'd still have to look it up. Otherwise you risk reinforcing an incorrect pronunciation of a word every time you read it. Depending on the type of reading materials, much of the vocab will be kun words. So ...beginners should go in with reasonable expectations as to their ability to "read" once they complete the method.
The method started as a way to the learn only the single most common On reading. An approach for multiple readings was added later (i.e. You take a movie character from the movies representing the other readings and incorporate them into your story. So you might find the Matrix guy and Superman as passengers on your Con Air flight, which means there are 3 readings.) But if you cannot know which reading a word uses, and one reading would allow you to look it up, then I don't understand what benefit there is to memorize multiple readings? And to do it for a couple hundred characters...? It's worth remembering that the high frequency kanji contain most of the multiple reading kanji.
Alex kindly put the site up to make it available to others. I'm sure he wasn't overly concerned about the exact wording his used to describe its benefits. To better assist beginners, however, he might consider rewording his list of benefits to make it more clear. In particular, the phonetic components vs memory palace relationship and their relative benefits. Besides, how can he claim that his method makes it easier to remember compounds when it is the only method he's used?
I'll use a concrete example in the next post.
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - Thora - 2009-05-19
This example in quotes is taken from the Movie Method site:
“Kanji compounds have become ridiculously easy to understand and remember. Long sentences with multiple unknown words are cake. For example: "造化正統の神胤を此大地上に降臨せしめ" has only three words that are kunyomi "神胤" and '此' with two of these being already known.”
I don't understand how knowing readings makes this a piece of cake. I also don't understand how it makes the compounds ridiculously easy to understand and remember. Am I missing something?
降臨 降 = こう、ご + kun
臨 = りん + kun
Possibilities: こうりん、ごりん、kunkun, こうkun, ごkun, kunりん, special
神胤 神 = しん、じん + kun
胤 = ? (non-jouyou, RTK3) on + kun
Cannot guess: If you had known the on reading for胤, the possibilities would be: しんし、じんし、しんkun, じんkun, kunkun or special. In this case, it’s kunkun.
造化正統 造 = ぞう + kun
化 = か, + kun
正 = せい、しょう + kun
統 = とう + kun
If you assume it’s divided into 造化 and正統, then possibilities would be:
造化：ぞうか、kunkun, ぞうkun, kunぞう, special
正統：せいとう、しょうとう、kunkun, kunとう、せいkun, しょうkun, special
此大地上 此 = ? (RTK3) on + kun
大 = だい、たい + kun
地 = ち、じ
上 = じょう、しょう + kun
How should we even divide this? Is it 此[大地上], 此大[地上], 此[大地]上に, [此大][地上], [此大地]上に ? Imagine the number of possible combinations and readings! 大 and 上often use their kun readings in kanji compounds...
Note to beginners: Alex may have chosen a somewhat difficult sentence to make the valid point that knowledge of readings can be applied to “authentic” Japanese. Just know that this isn’t common vocab and せしめ is kind of old grammar. (=する+causative, I think, but others would know).
[sorry about the length - hope it's at least helpful for someone]
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - alyks - 2009-05-19
Thora's points are quite right.
The idea behind choosing that extremely difficult sentence was to demonstrate that having knowledge of the readings reduces the amount of unknown information. Instead of having to remember the reading as well as associating it with the word (like in 降臨, memorizing こうりん), you only have to put two pieces of the puzzle together, "I know that one is こう and I know the next is りん really well". I contrast this to memorizing readings that are kunyomi, which I find comparatively difficult.
The Movie Method of learning onyomi. - DeadLugosi - 2009-05-20
I understand Thora's point, and it's important I think to understand what a method can do for you and what it can't, but I'm afraid many people tend to choose basic brute-force methods instead of more efficient ones just because they've be shown a flaw in the efficient one, or that people might fall into the idea that it's better or the same to walk three miles than to take the bus for two and only walk the last one ("you're gonna walk anyway, what's the difference?" ...).
I haven't learned on readings yet but in my opinion it must be must faster to learn the reading of the kanji in some specific compound if you already have an idea of what it might be, because you've already gotten from two hundreds or so possible readings to 2 or 3 (rarely much more).
And I maintain my point that a lot of critics of this method resemble critics of Heisig method, which doesn't mean there aren't other possible criticisms, neither does it mean the very critics which resemble those made of Heisig aren't sometimes relevant.