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+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
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+--- Thread: The Discouragement Thread (/thread-1762.html)
The Discouragement Thread - Nukemarine - 2008-08-07
Ever have anyone try to downplay your attempts at learning Kanji or Japanese? Post them here. Then let others roast those attempts to a fine crisp.
My offering (amoung many) "Why bother, I've lived in Japan for five years and managed to get by." This is said by a guy that never left more that 5 blocks outside the military base in Yokosuka.
The Discouragement Thread - dihutenosa - 2008-08-07
[by someone who has been in Japan for a few years, upon seeing that I was trying to get through the 常用漢字]:
"I don't think we need to know that many Kanji. They don't expect us to know that many Kanji." Nothing against that person, of course - I think a lot of non-Japanese (and Japanese) hold us to this same low standard. All the more reason to prove people wrong.
Funny, when I saw the title of this thread I thought it was going to be full of comments like "U SUCK LOLZ U CANT LERAN JAPANASE LOLOLO"
The Discouragement Thread - QuackingShoe - 2008-08-07
lolz you can't learn Japanese lolz
I think I've decided to agree to that 'nobody expects us to...' attitude. Let's all be the bare minimum, shall we? It'll be a lot easier!
I've never received any *specific* discouragement. It's always just the usual "what good will that be?" stuff.
Well, and the derision for 'going all Japanese'. Which isn't something I understand, since I haven't 'gone' anymore 'Japanese' since before I started. I'm not exactly a weeabo. And to whatever extent I am, I haven't become more of one...
It's actually just surprising in general how derisive people seem to be of language learning. It's par for the course to know multiple in other countries, but here in the US of A it's some kind of badge of honor... ONCE you're fluent, and if you're native English (if you're native anything else, knowing English just makes you acceptable as a human being. Maybe). When you're studying, it's like some kindof leprosy. Who learns another language? We already know English! And how arrogant does he have to be, anyway? Languages are hard!
Well, oh well.
The Discouragement Thread - scout - 2008-08-07
QuackingShoe: Yeah, that's happened to me ... "Why are you learning Japanese? We speak English here ... ENNNGGLLIISSHH!"
I think a lot of my friends have gotten annoyed by me trying to go all Japanese: "Here, watch this YouTube video." "I will if you find it in Japanese." "Ughh...." I've basically stopped telling them I won't watch it because of the response, but then they start asking what I thought of it. It's amazing how many times I have to actively reject doing something in English every day. And I'm still quite a ways away from being 100% Japanese most days.
The Discouragement Thread - alyks - 2008-08-07
People stop sending you youtube videos if you tell them you're learning Japanese!? Holy crap I should have told everybody a LONG time ago!
The Discouragement Thread - scout - 2008-08-07
I think it's more like they just get progressively more annoyed at you for each one you don't watch. You'd think people would eventually accept it. Still hasn't happened. "You've got to read this book!" "I'll read it when I can find it in Japanese." "Arghh.... read it in English, then go back and read it in Japanese some other time!"
Though my coworkers have generally taken it in stride ... especially when Oracle Calendar decided to send the meeting announcement out in Japanese just because my web browser was set to use Japanese.
The Discouragement Thread - johnzep - 2008-08-08
So I didn't read this thread...so we post discouragement? Sounds fun!
You'll never finish RTK...and only losers study japanese anyways...fatty.
The Discouragement Thread - hknamida - 2008-08-08
dihutenosa Wrote:Funny, when I saw the title of this thread I thought it was going to be full of comments like "U SUCK LOLZ U CANT LERAN JAPANASE LOLOLO"I actually considered making a thread like that after seeing the encouragement one.
The Discouragement Thread - AdamLeliel - 2008-08-08
alyks Wrote:People stop sending you youtube videos if you tell them you're learning Japanese!? Holy crap I should have told everybody a LONG time ago!Haha, my girlfriend was quite pissed off with me when she tried to link me to a British comedian on youtube...
My mother isn't exactly the most enthusing person. "No! You can't read that! You're not Japanese! It's impossible! How can you remember things? Even if you understand a bit, you don't understand all of it!"
The Discouragement Thread - Savara - 2008-08-08
"Even if you understand a bit, you don't understand all of it!""
LOL so true, I don't understand everything, yet. That's why I'm *learning* it right xD No use to learn something you already know!
Anyway, yes it happens.
My mother's favourite is "Aren't you too obsessive with Japanese? Aren't you just learning it because your friend A studies it?" ... (ehm, no. And, no. If anything, I should be even *more* obsessive. I wouldn't have kept this up for over a year if I only did so because a friend is 'learning' Japanese at uni.)
And usually from friends, not real discouragement but still;
"That's cool! I'm sure you'll be able to do it eventually, but I wouldn't ever be able to!"
People really think it's some sort of 'special skilllllll or sumthing' to be able to learn another language.
The Discouragement Thread - FlyingFin - 2008-08-08
Heh. I think that people just find Japanese 'impossible' because they can't read it at all - not even with horrible pronunciation
The Discouragement Thread - mentat_kgs - 2008-08-08
Whow, I get that all the time.
"why are you learning japanese?"
"do you want live in japan?"
But I'm happy. I have a few friends that suport me and my mother does it too.
Tought the support I receive from my mom is kinda weird. She often comes asking something about chinese, because the olympics. She thinks japanese and chinese are almost the same.
Of course there is more:
"japanese people take 10 years to learn japanese. why do you think you can do that in 3 years?"
The Discouragement Thread - jackhuddleston - 2008-08-15
There isn't much use for a lot of English to learn Japanese except out of just having a hobby. I can see people of other native tongues having a particular urgency to learn English because it's a international language, but it's somewhat rare for an English speaker to have any type of urgency to learn other languages. Right now, I don't have much use for Japanese, but I will see quite a bit of use for it in the future that will be a huge benefit for me. I say, it's a lot more productive studying something that I enjoy than just wasting my time on TV or whatsoever. Oddly, the more Japanese I know, the more I find myself actually using it and needing it.
The Discouragement Thread - Samsara - 2008-08-16
My least favorite question is "Why?" because I just cannot answer that. If you could understand why I'm studying Japanese, then you wouldn't need to ask the question. If you've never studied a foreign language for fun before, then I really can't explain it to you...
The Discouragement Thread - pitwo - 2008-08-16
I often find people don't really care at the reasons. They're just too stuck up in their own life to listen.
-- Are you learning japanese for girls?
-- wait, are you saying you're not getting any?
I often got weird looks for reading english literature at school, too.
(french is the official language of the province of Quebec)
Is it not ironic that so many people go trough some sort of higher education and yet fail to accept the possibily of someone having genuine interest in acquiring knowledge ?
The Discouragement Thread - Virtua_Leaf - 2008-08-16
I receive lots of discouragement but, admittedly, I think most of it is unintentional.
For instance,
- seeing other foreigners typing etc. at a higher level
- the fact that most Japanese people seem to know English to some extent
- seeing Japanese themes in mainstream media. Causes 'get off my turf!' kinda crap
- everytime I see a '^_^' I feel physically sick.
- when one day I can read a block of text just fine. The next day I don't understand a frickin' word
- seeing romaji's annoying
- putting an exhaustive amount of work into Japanese one day, and STILL not being able to understand that game to a suitable extent
- all work and no play makes Virtua_Leaf a dull boy
- I keeeel weaboo
- the weaboo mocks
- all work and no play makes Virtua_Leaf a dull boy
- all work and no play makes Virtua_Leaf a dull boy
And then of course there's more obvious ones. When on 2ch I get comments like: 「日本語をやめたほうがいい」 etc., but that's really par the course I think. Imagine if a foreigner tried to speak on a western anonymous board. But still, got me down a bit.
EDIT - Oh and a big one. When I see a sentence, chock full of vocab and grammar I know, and I STILL don't get it
And another: に and で etc. having a-frickin-million meanings and you're trying to work out what each ones means as you go down a sentence. I always have to read a sentence more than once to see what に is doing what, or sometimes I'll naturally read the sentence backwards to work it out, making me think that I still haven't adopted to Japanese sentence order even after all this time.
Great thread.
The Discouragement Thread - QuackingShoe - 2008-08-16
Virtua_Leaf Wrote:「日本語をやめたほうがいい」Ah, the Japanese. Even when they're being leprechaun, they sound so indirect!
Seriously though, what's with all the self-discouragement, man? There's enough genuine discouragement coming in from outside that you don't need to go discouraging yourself with made up things like other people more skilled than you are. Heck, they're proof it's possible, aren't they?
Oh and... ^_^
The Discouragement Thread - Mcjon01 - 2008-08-16
Samsara Wrote:My least favorite question is "Why?" because I just cannot answer that. If you could understand why I'm studying Japanese, then you wouldn't need to ask the question. If you've never studied a foreign language for fun before, then I really can't explain it to you...Next time, try responding with "Because you're not the boss of me." People usually don't try to follow up after that.
The Discouragement Thread - phauna - 2008-08-16
I hate all those foreigners I meet who have lived in Japan for years, and will probably stay here more. I hate them because I can't do that and won't be able to ever.
The Discouragement Thread - yukamina - 2008-08-16
Hm, I don't get discouraging comments from other people, they're are usually impressed("How can you read that?") or simply curious.
But I do get this one incomprehensible question..."Oh, are you Japanese?" With my brown skin and curly hair and general lack of Asian features. And the fact I'm studying Japanese vs already knowing it.
The Discouragement Thread - ashman63 - 2008-08-16
"You don't need to learn Kanji. I've learnt how to get by in Japan, and I only know Romaji"
(what a loser!)
The Discouragement Thread - Virtua_Leaf - 2008-08-17
QuackingShoe Wrote:Oh and... ^_^Grrr... :-P
You're right though, I admit most of that list is MY problem, not other people being leprechaun. I keep thinking I'll become more tolerant when I reach a 'decent' understanding of the language, but... until then I think I'll act like a grumpy old man.
The Discouragement Thread - albion - 2008-08-17
yukamina Wrote:But I do get this one incomprehensible question..."Oh, are you Japanese?" With my brown skin and curly hair and general lack of Asian features. And the fact I'm studying Japanese vs already knowing it.Although I wasn't studying Japanese then, I used to get that question all the time when I was a child. Presumedly from kids who have never seen a person from East Asian before. I guess having dark hair and eyes was enough.
Then again, people still never guess correctly where I'm from now. Even though most of them met me in the city I was born and raised in.
I can't say I've ever faced any discouragement, really. Just the odd "oh, wow!" if it does get brought up and usually doesn't go much futher than that.
The Discouragement Thread - sailornyanko - 2008-08-19
Hrm.. Maybe I've heard a comment here and there that japanese sounds difficult, but here in Med school, we're all workaholic masochists that somehow find great joy being stuck in a bus cramped like a sardine in a flooded traffic jammed street, arriving home at 10 pm or maybe even later with half our bodies wet with muddy water from a car who nicely passed right in front of us just to have a wonderful Physiopathology exam at 7 am the next day with over 300 pages of a hideously boring book to memorize from in the last minute. Oh, and the exam is oral.
Yeah, learning a kanji here and there while you're stuck like a sardine in a bus sounds like fun hehe. /rant
I usually get people comenting "Oh, I bet you're already very fluent if you can read some kanji". I kinda humble down saying I'm just a newbie and that kanji is probably my strongest point. >_<'' I'll only really get the full grasp of the language through immersion. maybe someday when I graduate...
[more ranting]Well, better leave now to get stuck in a bus like a sardine for the next 2 hours to (hopefully) arrive home on time to see Fafner subbed on mexican national tv. [/end rant]
The Discouragement Thread - oggthegoblin - 2008-08-30
No discouragement for Japanese yet (haven't been doing it long) but for language learning in general teachers have always said you don't need a second language if you have dyslexia. which to be honest annoyed me enoth to start learning a language on my own.