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+--- Thread: Stuck at some sort of wall, need help (/thread-1398.html)
Stuck at some sort of wall, need help - playadom - 2008-05-31
I'm at about 610 now. For the past couple days, I haven't been able to get the stories to stick. For the first 550 or so, I was making the associations smoothly, but now, I can't for the life of me remember anything! I'm trying to add more new kanji, but I'm just stuck trimming the failed stack down, and whenever I add new kanji, the stories just won't come.
What's going on?
Stuck at some sort of wall, need help - Floatingweed5 - 2008-05-31
You're going through your first "kanji crisis" ™. Don't Panic! You'll get through it.
Don't forget that this is a tough project. Maybe one of the toughest you'll face. You WILL hit walls. More than one, I'm afraid. You have to examine at your problem, change your tactics to suit and push on.
I had two sticking points similar to yours. One at around 600, and another at around 1200. Many other people stall at the same points. Both times I didn't add any cards for over a month (although I don't necessarily recommend you do that). I did keep on with my daily reviews through this time.
The game gets a lot harder at the 500-600 kanji mark Probably because Heisig holds your hand a lot during the first 500 and you speed through them too fast... and probably because after 500 your brain starts to overload for the first time with the vast amount of information you're throwing at it.
The best advice I can give is to calm down and stick with it. Lower your expectations for a while. Lower the pace that you add new cards. By all means take a short break from adding for a few days and focus on your reviews until you get comfortable. When you stop worrying about your failed cards and begin worrying about your slow pace then you'll know ready to speed up again. Just monitor your anxiety and you'll know what you need to do. (Hope that makes sense!)
A word of warning: No matter how you decide to tackle this... NEVER stop your daily reviews. NEVER stop your daily reviews. (yes, twice - it's that important).
Stuck at some sort of wall, need help - QuackingShoe - 2008-05-31
I'd feel safe in venturing to guess that your sudden floundering with stories coinciding with Heisig's withdrawal from holding your hand isn't exactly a coincidence.
There's no special secret to continuing from here. Unfortunately, Heisig's withdrawal also coincides with what might be some of the harder kanji.. I'm not sure, but taking a peak into that area, I happen to find some of the kanji I still have issues with, so. At any rate, this is the time you need to grab the bull by the horns and make sure you come up with the stories that really click for you. If you still need a lot of help (God knows I'm too lazy to come up with good stories for every character on my own), that's really what this site is for. I actually go through the book while flipping through the kanji on this site at the same time, reading through other peoples stories before trying to decide on one for myself at all (unless one happens to spring to mind immediately, and even then I take a glance just to see if someone has something better).
So just keep at it. The kanji may be getting a bit more complicated, but otherwise, nothing has really changed. Do the exact same thing you were doing before, just rely more on this site and your own mind instead of Heisig. If you're still having trouble, DO change your method. If you've been going for visual stories, try making rhymes. If you're been relying on word play, try making things visual. Try drawing pictures, or making little songs. Relate kanji keywords to experiences in your childhood (this often works RATHER well for me). You can do it.
I believe this is a phase most all of us go through, but we tough it out and figure a way to make it work. I believe it's also a common quitting point for a lot of people, either on their 'first time around' or permanently. Don't let it be either for you
Stuck at some sort of wall, need help - alyks - 2008-05-31
Yeah, he stops spoonfeeding you mnemonics around there. The problem is, he gives you things like "words....intention" for document. (601) See, the clever mnemonics he gave earlier are hard to think of. So even if words and intention make sense for document, it's way to intangible and makes too much sense. The reason mnemonics work is because things stand out in your mind, not fits perfectly.
Try not to think too much about the story itself, but make clear images for what's going on. For the one above, try thinking of somebody shouting (words) at his desk intending to make a piece of paper (document) appear. Make sure you clearly see the piece of paper appearing.
I'm working on a document myself to hopefully clarify mnemonics and kanji.
Stuck at some sort of wall, need help - mentat_kgs - 2008-05-31
Yo alyks, your advice might help me too. I'm having the same problem for a long time.
And as said earlier, never stop yor daily reviews!
Stuck at some sort of wall, need help - Transtic - 2008-05-31
Something that has helped me a lot is personification. It is using specific people or characters to represent some primitives. That is a strategy used by lots of people, but I didn't realised of its power until I reached 人 and used Chuck Norris. XD
I wish I had used more personification from the beginning.
Also you can print out a list of the most difficult kanji and keep it with you everywhere, so when you have any free time you can check the list. You can also keep a little notebook or something like that, so that you can write down notes whenever an idea hits you.
You can also use places. They can be real or imaginary, specific or abstract places, depending on what works the best for you at each case. For example, for Pinnacle (the left part of 阪,陽,院 etc.) I use a statue that is placed at the highest part of my city. Or for cave (like in 店 and 庫) I imagine a place where cavemen live.
頑張れ！
Stuck at some sort of wall, need help - frlmarty - 2009-03-22
I am stuck at 600, too!
I keep reviewing.
When will I add new cards? Hopefully soon.
Anyone else stranded around frame 600 in March 09?
Stuck at some sort of wall, need help - Artemisk - 2009-03-22
Just keep adding cards, don't worry, let the srs work for you. Don't fear failure, keep adding (a small amount of) new cards and they'll go into the failed box if you do mess them up. You'll click on the failed box and reread the stories. You'll fail them a few more times and eventually you'll get it. You HAVE to get it, you'll have reread the story 7 times and it will stick! "Just Do It!" - Nike
Stuck at some sort of wall, need help - Tobberoth - 2009-03-22
frlmarty Wrote:I am stuck at 600, too!Personally, I never stopped adding cards. I added at least 5 cards everyday but generally, I added 20 or more.
I keep reviewing.
When will I add new cards? Hopefully soon.
Anyone else stranded around frame 600 in March 09?
Stuck at some sort of wall, need help - Asriel - 2009-03-22
What helped me the most (currently at about 1000) is to look at this site when coming up with stories. The ones that stick with me the best are 'definitions.' Sometimes an image will form, but like I see 'document,' and I think "what is a document? Oh right, there's 'words' that state your 'intention' of something."
Coming up with this story, I might get an 'image' of the Declaration of Independence or something.
Some people might consider it a sin, but when I come up with my stories, almost always look at the stories and see if there's one I like. Usually there is, and I'll either steal it, or modify it a bit for myself.
But hey, with a 90%+ retention rate, I think it's working OK.
Stuck at some sort of wall, need help - Sleepyhead - 2009-03-22
A few weeks back, I was stuck at about the same point (if it's that that huge 130 kanji chapter you're talking about). What I did, was that I chopped the chapter up into smaller parts, at around 20 kanji per part, using the addition of new primitives as natural stopping points. I never paused though, so always remember to do your reviews, even if you don't add new ones that particular day.
Another thing that really helped me out, was that I switched over to Anki. I'm not saying you have to do this, but it really helped me out, since I can edit the keyword field to add descriptions to words that I've never ever seen before (and English is not my first language, so I'll use that as an excuse =D).
Well, that's what I did, and it's working out well, and I'm slowly going through the last half of the book at the moment.
Stuck at some sort of wall, need help - Robatsu - 2009-03-22
Yeah, this sounds exactly where I'm heading at the moment. I have had a stack of bad reviews (50-ish Kanji, 70% correct) and those Kanji past 600 are starting to be quite abstract, and the 'state of mind' primitive just doesn't want to be recalled (perhaps I should of heeded the warning and used 'Data' instead)?
Maybe once I get into the momentum of creating mnemonics that work for me then I will be able to keep whittling them down. Once the 130 Kanji lesson is done there aren't many big lessons left. I've had little issues with the odd Kanji here and there and got through it, so I'm sure I can get through it with some effort. I'm sure I can say the same for you. We've gone too far not to fall down now, don't give up!
I agree with Artemisk, just keep doing it. If you fail some cards, go over the stories and do it again. I find I will fail a card maybe 4 or 5 times before it sticks totally if it's a gnarly one.
Stuck at some sort of wall, need help - Fanki - 2009-03-22
Sleepyhead Wrote:but it really helped me out, since I can edit the keyword field to add descriptions to words that I've never ever seen before (and English is not my first language, so I'll use that as an excuse =D).I absolutely did the same thing. I realized that the reason I wasn't remembering the kanji wasn't that I made bad stories. It was because I just didn't remember what the keyword exactly means.
I also hit a wall when I was on the 1300's. I was doing 50 new card per day, so I slowed to 25. I have been advancing like that for a long time and now I'm about to finish the book. I recommend you to never stop adding new cards. Don't get stuck, that's the worst. Waste your time making good memorable stories, don't waste it being stuck reviewing the old kanji without adding new ones.
Stuck at some sort of wall, need help - liosama - 2009-03-22
Don't worry I had lots of problems at that stage (I still do) Too many of the keywords relate to lamentation/sadness/other things, i had such a hard time remembering each one.
You'll get by, that's the best i can say. Just march through it, you're bound to have many walls, ~600 was my first one, then 1000 was my second one, i went to 1200 in a day but those 200 just flew right out, so i jumped back down to 1000 until i finish my subjects this semester.
Stuck at some sort of wall, need help - julz6453 - 2009-03-22
I've had the same problems before too... my kanji block happened a lot earlier though. (Around 350-400 I think.) I'm nearing the 600 mark right now, but it's actually going pretty smoothly. What helps me is to section off a few kanji that I'm going to learn - usually it's a group that use a new primitive. I then read that section about 4 times over a couple days to get it stuck in my head. Only after that do I put them in RtK - and they're a lot easier to remember after that.
One other thing - one of the best ways to learn kanji, I've found, is by failing them. If there are certain kanji that you're failing all the time, maybe you do need to go back and re-study it. But a lot of times, the repetition you get from seeing it in the fail stack and having to review it so much is enough to make you remember it after 10 times or so. :-)
Stuck at some sort of wall, need help - cozmic0 - 2009-03-22
I too encountered some slowdown at the first 25% of the book... What give me motivation is reading Khatz post from AJAAT... then now I'm steadily adding around 25 Kanji everyday... a little over halfway now
As for the stories after frame 500-ish, I ALWAYS steal the top stories for EVERY(well almost all) kanji from this site... kudos to all
Stuck at some sort of wall, need help - Thunk - 2009-03-24
I think I know why people get overwhelmed at this point. It's all the reviewing! I learn 250/week, and then review everything I've learned once a week. It took me two days to review all 766 flashcards this week, and next week I'll have to review 1000 on Monday/Tuesday. @_@
Heisig was right, though. I find that if I don't do that, I get so out of touch with some of my kanji, I have to relearn them, dedicating 2-5 minutes per. It's best to nail what you've learned before adding more. I'm giving myself around two months to be done with RTK1. So far, I'm on schedule.
You know what I love about part 3, though? I get my own visuals! It's so much easier for me to remember stories I come up with on my own (but curse Heisig - curse him! For making the primitive for 696 a crotch! I consider myself a modest person, but my thoughts plummeted south with each kanji using it. @_@ Turns out, I'm a filthy pervert, afterall. ^_^
Stuck at some sort of wall, need help - Thunk - 2009-03-24
Ah! Personification has totally helped me, too. Taskmaster is my old vocal teacher from high school, and I use Miss Piggy for the Pig visual, and those kanji that use them are some of the easiest to remember.
I also usually use the visual of the actual primitive and give it some sort of personality. I've got giant, sentient fingers, tongues, hearts, vases and words all over the place in my stories. It helps a ton. Works a lot better than ambiguous extractions from a scene that could mean anything, and it takes a lot less time committing them to memory. Every time I see the kanji for formerly, an autonomous horned slimy brain with a dripping tongue pops up in my head.