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手紙を書きたい (help with grammar) - ファブリス - 2006-08-17
I want to write a letter in Japanese. Rrrrrrrright... Where do I begin ? ^_^
I've been putting this off for weeks. I still haven't started serious study of grammar and I'm waiting for the "Dictionary of Japanese Grammar" which won't be delivered until at least another month :/
I need help with some sentences, I'll write some of my guesses :
"I'm thinking of going to Japan, probably around January 2007."
１２月か来年１月は日本へ行くつもり。 (?)
or
<time>は日本へ行きたいです。
"I hope I'll see you then! Maybe you can show me around 大阪 ?" (Osaka)
"If I can go to Kyoto then I would like to see the 清水寺 (kyomizu temple)."
京都へ行ったら清水寺を見たい。 (?)
高大の寺、ね。 (?) (huge/impressive temple, isn't it?)
"The stamps on the envelope are beautiful" (ふみの日「百人一首」切手)
封筒の切手がきれい。 (?)
"I will <verb> better (next time)"
How do you say that without something to compare with, like より ?
Can you write 僕 in a letter? Or do you use 私 ?
I saw these somewhere, aren't they too formal?
ご無沙汰しておりますが、お元気でいらっしゃいますか。 I'm sorry I haven't written for a long time, but have you been doing well?
お返事お待ちしております。 I look forward to hearing from you.
どうぞお元気で。 Take care (of yourself).
-------------
どうもありがとう！
手紙を書きたい (help with grammar) - krusher - 2006-08-17
Quote:"I'm thinking of going to Japan, probably around January 2007."つもり means intention, it is stronger than 予定 (plan) here's an example of つもり
１２月か来年１月は日本へ行くつもり。 (?)
来年、何をするつもりですか？
What do you intend to do next year?
（来年）日本に行って、勉強をするつもりです。
(next year) I intend to go to Japan and study.
As for 予定 this is used just like つもり but means 'plan':
来年、大学で日本語を勉強する予定です。
I'm planning on studying Japanese at University next year.
So if you want to get the 'thinking of' in there, for your sentence I would write:
来年の1月、日本に行こうと思っています。
I'm thinking of going to Japan next January.
(行こう is volitional form)
Quote:ご無沙汰しておりますが、お元気でいらっしゃいますか。 I'm sorry I haven't written for a long time, but have you been doing well?Yeah, that's all very polite, especially お元気でいらっしゃいますか. I usually write 返事を遅くなってごめん（なさい）for 'Sorry about the late reply) and I usually get 元気にしてましたか？ from friends when asking if I'm 元気. but I would write it in the polite form of (最近は）お元気にしていましたか or お元気ですか as a side note, I often get 元気そうでうれしいです in my replies - I guess a natural translation would be 'I'm glad you seem to be doing well'
Quote:どうぞお元気で。 Take care (of yourself).I'm honestly not sure what's most correct here, I think you could use that with no problems, I get 気をつけてね often which is informal, but since I get emails and not handwritten letters (Oh how I wish...) I guess you can wave more formalities. In school I got taught お体を大切に but I have never seen it 'in the feild' I either get ultra-formal emails or very informal ones.
Quote:"If I can go to Kyoto then I would like to see the 清水寺 (kyomizu temple)."If I could take a stab, I'd say：
京都へ行ったら清水寺を見たい。
京都に行ければ清水寺に行きたい
The first iku is in potentional then conditional form '/if/ I /can/ go..'
Or using the てみる form which means 'to try to see what it's like':
もし京都に行けるなら、清水寺に行ってみたい。
If I can go to Kyoto, I'd like to go to Kiyomizu (to see what it's like.)
^ I think this one is more natural, but don't quote me.
Note: when using the temiru form write it in hiragana, this seems to be a rule of thumb for grammar that has the same pronunciation as other words, eg: koto
'if' is kinda difficult because there's a few ways to say it, but I found a page that will explain it to you:
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/conditional.html#part6
Quote:"I will <verb> better (next time)"What do you want to say? You're Kanji is good, and you just wrote an entire letter by hand, so you might want to write something self humbling like:
How do you say that without something to compare with, like より ?
私の日本語を読めたら嬉しいです。今度はもっと上手に書いてがんばります。
I hope you can read my Japanese, I will try and write better next time.
I really hope I didn't give you any wrong information, I will try and check everything with my textbooks when I get home. I will try answer your other questions soon if nobody else does.
手紙を書きたい (help with grammar) - wrightak - 2006-08-18
I've only briefly scanned the above but one comment I would make is that you have to try and be consistent with your formality level. To simplify things, I like to think that there are basically three levels of formality: the plain form eg. 清水寺に行きたい。 the です/ます form eg. 切手はきれいです and then keigo お元気でいらっしゃいますか？
Basically, I'd stay well away from keigo until you've mastered the other two. Unless you've been corresponding in the plain form for a while, I'd recommend the です/ます form since it's easy to use and very safe. If you got a letter in the です/ます form then you should definitely reply in the same form. However, the surprising thing is that even if you are spoken or written to in the plain form, if your opposite is older than you or of a higher status, you respond politely and not in the same plain form. For example, if your 60 year old land lord calls out 'おはよう！' to you, you do not respond with 'おはよう!', you respond 'おはようございます!'.
Most of what krusher recommended was in the です/ます form apart from 清水寺に行ってみたい Change that to 清水寺に行ってみたいです
高大の寺、ね isn't right. 高大な is a na-adjective so you would have to say 高大な寺ですね. It's very common for learners of Japanese to use の too often. I know I do. Leaving out the です here turns the sentence into something very casual and you wouldn't write that in a letter. I've never heard anyone use 高大 and I suspect it may be a word that's a little bit more formal. I assume that you used WWWJdic and are looking for 'grand/impressive'. Impressive is a word that I have often wanted to say in Japanese but I've never found a word that works in all situations. For casual situations すごい works well. If you want to say tall then you say 高い寺ですね and if you want big you say 大きい寺ですね, putting them both together, 高くて大きい寺ですね. But I don't think this is what you're looking for. Go for 高大 and see what happens.
封筒の切手がきれい －＞ 封筒の切手はきれいです。
手紙を書きたい (help with grammar) - Pangolin - 2006-08-18
Sorry I don't have more time, but as Wrightak mentioned, if you are using EDICT for vocabulary you have to be very careful as it has pretty much everything with no way of discerning whether a word or term is commonly used, somewhat archaic or eccentric! I never use it for vocabulary per se for that reason, preferring a dictionary with examples of usage and not too much vocab (e.g. Kodansha's Furigana). A good way to test usage of course is by putting the phrase in Google (putting it in quotes can help).
So for example, for "impressive temple", I found 印象的 in Kodansha (いんしょうてき- impressive), and 印象的な寺 comes up with a healthy number of hits. I also test things out in Excite or Infoseek's translation engines. (Mind you, in term time my work get's scrutinized by my Japanese teacher, which is hard to beat!)
And of course, yes, make sure there is a good reason not to conjugate adjectives by な and い type before resorting to の. Non primary colours are good example, みどりの髪 (green hair!).
PS Please let me know what your think of the grammar book you ordered, when you get it, because I am in the market for a good one!
手紙を書きたい (help with grammar) - ファブリス - 2006-08-18
Thanks guys, that was very helpful!
Regarding 高大の寺 I agree. I tried to say "that's one big/impressive temple!", I saw a sentence somewhere with the の particle that seemed to be used like this :
大き車です。 A big car.
大きなの車です。 One big car!
Quote:Go for 高大 and see what happens.Well, who knows? Maybe she'll tear up my letter in little pieces, and then burn it.
But seriously, this temple looks amazing, wow. I saw it in a free magazine that I got from the local japanese embassy, it's called "NIPPONIA". It's got some really nice photos and layout. Ok I just found the url in the mag but it doesnt seem to work at present : http://web-japan.org/nipponia.
How would you say...
- "Maybe you can show me around 大阪 ?" (Osaka)
is this correct ?
もしよかったら、(私に)大阪を紹介しますか？
literally : if it's ok with you, introduce me to Osaka?
or more polite? もしよかったら、大阪を紹介しませんか？
Are these correct :
"I'm looking forward to it"
楽しみしてて。
"Could you send the photos from <place/day> ?" (polite)
<place/day>の写真を送りますくださいませんか。
Pangolin Wrote:PS Please let me know what your think of the grammar book you ordered, when you get it, because I am in the market for a good one!I wish, but it ll take like 6 weeks before they arrive
But judging by the reviews at Amazon this looks like the "missing link" for me at present. Armed with Kodansha 's Kanji LEarner & Japanese English dictionary I hope I'll be set for a while.
手紙を書きたい (help with grammar) - wrightak - 2006-08-19
ファブリス Wrote:Regarding 高大の寺 I agree. I tried to say "that's one big/impressive temple!", I saw a sentence somewhere with the の particle that seemed to be used like this :I think that both of your sentences are wrong, especially the second. The first one should be 大きい車です (a very common mistake that I make a lot but you can hear the difference if you don't pronounce it like this) and I think that the second one makes no sense. There is a grammar construct which involves sentences with のです at the end but I'll let you look it up in your grammar book, it takes time to convey the meaning.
大き車です。 A big car.
大きなの車です。 One big car!
ファブリス Wrote:But seriously, this temple looks amazing, wow. I saw it in a free magazine that I got from the local japanese embassy, it's called "NIPPONIA". It's got some really nice photos and layout.Which temple was it? 清水寺? I've been there, it's one of the must see temples in Kyoto. Just bear in mind that all of the slats of wood have been put together without any nails.
ファブリス Wrote:- "Maybe you can show me around 大阪 ?" (Osaka)Actually, 紹介しますか and 紹介しませんか are equally polite because they both use the ます form. The difference lies in their meaning. 大阪を紹介しますか means 'are you introducing (someone) to Osaka?'. It doesn't carry the conotation of that someone necessarily being you. Think about it with another verb to see what's going on. ケーキを食べます I eat the cake. ケーキを食べますか? Will you eat the cake?
is this correct ?
もしよかったら、(私に)大阪を紹介しますか？
literally : if it's ok with you, introduce me to Osaka?
or more polite? もしよかったら、大阪を紹介しませんか？
～ませんか often carries the implication of invitation and is therefore often used with 一緒に. eg. 一緒にパーティーへ行きませんか？ Would you like to go to the party with me? So to cut it short, you got it right with 大阪を紹介しませんか？
ファブリス Wrote:Are these correct :No. 楽しみにしています。is what you're looking for.
"I'm looking forward to it"
楽しみしてて。
ファブリス Wrote:"Could you send the photos from <place/day> ?" (polite)～くださいませんか is too overboard on the politeness scale. One of the constructs you learn in a beginners course is ～てください It's very useful and you can use it all the time whenever you want to request something. Here you say: <place/day>の写真を送ってください。 If you're being very casual, say in the house and you want to ask your brother to open the window, ～てください is often shortened to just ～て. eg. 暑いね。窓を開けて。Having said that look at what you tried to write for looking forward to it.
<place/day>の写真を送りますくださいませんか。
Rather than wait for your reference grammar book, I'd go out and get one of the standard beginners text books. Japanese for Busy People worked well for me and a few others have been recommended. Work your way through them and I think it would be of more value than a grammar dictionary.
手紙を書きたい (help with grammar) - Piitaa - 2006-08-19
Hello, a few small things to add.
ファブリス Wrote:Regarding 高大の寺 I agree. I tried to say "that's one big/impressive temple!", I saw a sentence somewhere with the の particle that seemed to be used like this :As wrightak said these are grammatically incorrect. 大きい is a bit of a special case in that in can act both as an i-adjective or as a na-adjective. The correct forms are:
大き車です。 A big car.
大きなの車です。 One big car!
大きい車です。 Is a big car.
大きな車です。 Is a big car.
I don't think there are different nuances between these two forms. As wrightak said, you may have confused it with a different grammatical construct.
ファブリス Wrote:"Maybe you can show me around 大阪 ?" (Osaka)The term that is most often used for showing someone around someplace is 案内(する). So, this sentence would be something like:
もしよかったら，大阪を案内してくれませんか？
If it's allright, won't you show me around Osaka?
くれる is a useful helper verb you can use if someone is doing something as a favor to the subject, or for requesting a favor.
ファブリス Wrote:"Could you send the photos from <place/day> ?" (polite)送りますくださいませんか should be changed.
<place/day>の写真を送りますくださいませんか。
The polite -ます ending can only be used at the end of the sentence, and gives the entire sentence a polite tone even if plain or -te from verbs come before it.
Secondly, you must change a verb to its -te for this expression (or, if you want to link multiple verbs in a sentence). The proper usage is -てください.
写真を送ってくださいませんか
Wouldn't you please send the photos?
I think it would be wise to take a look at some essential grammar, as Wrightak said. There are excellent website out there for this. One I particularly recommend is http://www.guidetojapanese.org/. Working through the basic and essential grammar sections should give you all you need for a while, and won't take too long. Of course you can also use it as a reference. Good luck!
手紙を書きたい (help with grammar) - wrightak - 2006-08-19
ditto everything piitaa said especially the part about 案内する being better than 紹介する. However
Piitaa Wrote:写真を送ってくださいませんかI think it's too formal. 送ってください is fine.
Wouldn't you please send the photos?
手紙を書きたい (help with grammar) - Piitaa - 2006-08-19
I agree with it being too formal actually, I just wanted to point out its correct usage. Sorry for not being clear on that.
手紙を書きたい (help with grammar) - ファブリス - 2006-08-19
Thanks again,
I saw this form " 楽しみにしてて" in a letter here :
http://www.outpostnine.com/editorials/teacher49.html
I wondered what those extra 'te' mean.
Quote:Rather than wait for your reference grammar book, I'd go out and get one of the standard beginners text books. Japanese for Busy People worked well for me and a few others have been recommended. Work your way through them and I think it would be of more value than a grammar dictionary.True.. I've seen JfBP at the local Waterstones, but it was full of romaji. I'll look again for the "kana" version. I currently have "GENKI I", so maybe I should try to finish that first. The thing about the dictionary of grammar, is that it's kind of frustrating to go trough a bunch of dialogues and set exercies when you already know exactly what you need to say or write, or you want to translate a sentence from a book, but you can't lookup the grammar point that you need. At present, the Kodansha furigana J-E helps me a bit with that, because if I lookup some words like [kana]koto, toki, made[/kana] etc, there's a few example sentences with each word, and various uses.
Tae Kim's guide to grammar is really excellent.
手紙を書きたい (help with grammar) - Pangolin - 2006-08-19
All my Japanese classes have used JfBP, the romaji versions are to be avoided as most people agree, but I quite like the course itself. We begin on book 3 shortly! I don't think it's too bad at all on grammar, and the teacher thinks the explanations are quite good. Of course, being in classes you get a lot of extra material, not to mention a teacher to provide further explanation. I think the vast array of conditional forms ~たら ~なら ~と ~ば have given me most trouble. I think it takes a lot of practice to get a feel for which to use in a given situation.
I was interested by 楽しみにしてて too as it looks so weird, so I cheated and asked on another board. The answer is that it is short for 楽しみにしていて下さい; Natsumi is asking Jeff to look forward to the souvenir she is planning on buying him. The double て being the ~て (gerund) endings of する then いる, dropping the い between them (and the ください dropped from the end).
手紙を書きたい (help with grammar) - ファブリス - 2006-08-20
Ah, I'm looking for letters in Google Images, I found one with the expression :
ご無沙汰 【ごぶさた】 (n,vs) not writing or contacting for a while
It begins with たいへん so I guess it means "I'm terribly sorry for not contacting you in a while..."
wrightak did you mean there is keigo in one of my posts? Like the expression above perhaps?
Pangolin wow, interesting. Do we have an expression like that in english, to ask someone else to look forward to something ? There's "just you wait..." but that's not quite the same meaning.
手紙を書きたい (help with grammar) - Pangolin - 2006-08-20
ファブリス Wrote:Pangolin wow, interesting. Do we have an expression like that in english, to ask someone else to look forward to something ? There's "just you wait..." but that's not quite the same meaning.I don't think we do, to request someone to look forward to something would sound presumptious in English (in fact, I'm surprised it doesn't in Japanese). I think your "just you wait and see" is the closest, but there's something rather teasing in that phrase and I don't think this is meant in the Japanese: the full version is couched as a polite set phrase and I think that's how it's meant.
手紙を書きたい (help with grammar) - ファブリス - 2006-08-20
Haha, this letter I want to write is taking forever. I think it's rather funny that even re-reading myself takes a long time, and there's only like 8 sentences so far ^_^
手紙を書きたい (help with grammar) - ファブリス - 2006-08-20
Ok this time I did my homework
..do these make any sense ?
あなたは日本地図を能く描きました。
(how do you talk about what the OTHER person did, without using [kana]anata[/kana] ? I read somewhere that it was not often used, do I have to use the person 's name, if so do you use [kana]san[/kana] all the time? i.e. 佳子さんは日本地図を能く描きました。 ? )
京都に行った事がありますか？ 清水寺を見ましたか。 印象的な寺ですね。
奈良へ大仏を見ときに私は大仏のように瞑想しています。
(I am trying to say : when you go to see the 大仏 in 奈良... I will be doing like him, i.e. I will be sitting in the same posture, meditating)
２９日８月から９日９月まで、ヴィパッサナー瞑想法の基本を学びます。
10日間コースです。
Can I write 僕 instead of 私 in a letter ? does 私 really make you sound feminine ?
-----
みんなさんおやすみなさい !!
手紙を書きたい (help with grammar) - Pangolin - 2006-08-21
ファブリス Wrote:Ok this time I did my homeworkI would never use あなた. I think it's only to be used when you can't address the reader any other way (it is used in notices for this reason). If you remember the letter from the school girl, she referred to Jeff by name, and even when speaking to Jeff, Jeff's dad was referred to as ジェフのお父さん. And this was not a formal letter. If possible, avoid referring to someone completely. In a one-to-one conversation there is no need to make either you or the listener the topic - just drop the person-は, unless you wan't to emphasize for some reason.
..do these make any sense ?
あなたは日本地図を能く描きました。
(how do you talk about what the OTHER person did, without using [kana]anata[/kana] ? I read somewhere that it was not often used, do I have to use the person 's name, if so do you use [kana]san[/kana] all the time? i.e. 佳子さんは日本地図を能く描きました。 ? )
Can I write 僕 instead of 私 in a letter ? does 私 really make you sound feminine ?
-----
みんなさんおやすみなさい !!
You could make 日本の地図 (note the the の) the topic, then say she drew it well, thus avoiding referring to her at all: 日本の地図をよく描きました。 (Not sure about 能く描きました, would よく描きました be more usual? Perhaps others can comment.) Or: 佳子さんの日本の地図をよく描きました。
Use -さん throughout if you would use it to speak to her. I would guess in this letter さん is still proper, but I guess only you can know that.
I don't know who said 私 sounds feminine, if you are using semi-formal speech, that's what you should use. I guess if you are talking to a bunch of guys referring to themselves as 僕 (or even おれ!) then you might sound a wuss (or standoffish) using 私, but I wouldn't use 僕 in a polite letter like this, or with people I didn't know well. Again, this is something only you can be really sure about, in terms of your relationship with that person.
手紙を書きたい (help with grammar) - ファブリス - 2006-09-13
Thanks for all the help.
How would you say something like this :
"You inspired me to visit my own country."
thanks!
I got the dictionary of advanced japanese grammar delivered, but I'm still waiting for the Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar.