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Kanji sounds (is there a "principal" pronunciation?) - anneka - 2016-03-17
I've been checking the forums and it looks like I'm waaaaaay behind you, guys.
However, the thing is that I just started learning the Kanji. I have found many different systems and apps to practice drawing (also on paper), choosing the correct one or doing tests, reading and styding the cards... I haven't had much problem relating X Kanji to X idea, so I'm doing fine with that and spend some time everyday checking them or learning new.
The hard part (as guess it's the same for all) is that because they can be used on so many contexts and have so many readings, I still can't relate any particular sound to them. It's easy to remember 父, as it looks like crutches and that kinda makes sense for me (crutches and father are both related to support). I'm studying on my own so everytime I check how something it's pronounced, I get like 5 different words. I guess I need to learn all of them and when they are used, but is there a "principal" pronunciation or something like that? I know about the kun and on readings, but I never seem to find the right one.
Thanks!
RE: Kanji's sounds - EratiK - 2016-03-17
This is why people usually advocates to learn the pronounciation in context within words (and if you follow Heisig that is once you've learned the kanji <> keyword/idea correspondance).
"Principal" is kind of vague: some readings are more frequent than others, but it might be for a word you have no interest in vocabulary wise. Also when used in compounds, the on reading is usually more frequent, though it will have homophones (for example 夢 > む, but む is also 無、六...), while for single kanji word the kun reading usually stands out more (夢 > ゆめ dream).
But yeah, you don't need to learn all the readings of a single kanji at once, just learn the one you feel is the most relevant for you, and later on you'll learn the others through context.
RE: Kanji's sounds - fuaburisu - 2016-03-17
(2016-03-17, 7:09 am)anneka Wrote: I've been checking the forums and it looks like I'm waaaaaay behind you, guys.
Welcome to the Koohii forum!
This forum welcomes Japanese language learners of ALL levels, and all relevant questions are welcome.
It's true the community grew around intermediate to advanced learners; and dare we say we have pretty much experts on here.
Part of that is that the community sprung from the "Reviewing the Kanji" user base (now called Kanji Koohii), who all had in common that they wanted to master two thousand kanji with James Heisig's Remembering the Kanji method. That is to reach a certain fluency both in reading and writing.And you're right this is one of the oldest sub-forums, dedicated to the books. Although any questions somewhat relevant to the component-based study (such as the radicals) can fit in that forum too.
Either way, don't worry we can always move threads (no need to recreate). In doubt feel free to post in General Discussion.
When you wish to move a thread you can also report the thread (first post), select "Other" reason, and just leave a message and a moderator will move the thread, or deleted the double post, etc.
RE: Kanji sounds (is there a "principal" pronunciation?) - fuaburisu - 2016-03-17
You'll probably want to learn the more common readings. I don't think it is very efficient nor anyone will recommend to systematically learn all the readings. Personally when I studied Japanese I liked to simplify. Try to remember a word for each kanji that you learn, along with pronunciation. Let the additional readings come later when you read things you enjoy.
The thing with On readings is that there is at least some pattern for memorization whereby certain kanji components (radicals) can indicate a pronunciation. This is why Heisig tried to streamline whatever could be in the RTK 2 book by grouping characters that share the same On reading.
On Kanji Koohii 's study pages, usually the most common On reading is shown under the kanji. And you can also click "Sample words" to see related compounds (words) that illustrate the various readings.
RE: Kanji sounds (is there a "principal" pronunciation?) - CureDolly - 2016-03-17
I prefer to learn the kanji as part of words, but the Heisig method is also good for people who prefer that approach.
But I really do think that however one learns the kanji themselves, one really should learn the readings as part of words. Learning lists of readings in the abstract is really a path to frustration.
One thing that I do feel is under-used is the fact that certain kanji elements (and you will be well aware of a kanji's elements from Heisig) very often indicate the on-reading of a word.
Perhaps because it isn't by any means a strict rule, people tend to ignore this, but it really can make a huge difference in learning how words are pronounced.
In this case I do recommend learning some of the basic sound-elements (not a huge job). But having done so, I would recommend learning words and their readings.
Having met the sound-sisters makes this a lot easier!
RE: Kanji sounds (is there a "principal" pronunciation?) - RawrPk - 2016-03-17
Welcome anneka! Don't feel like you are the odd person out as everyone starts off as a beginner in anything.
In terms of learning kanji, there are many methods to go about this. Here is a good article that shows the common methods: http://www.tofugu.com/japanese/kanji-study-methods/
(2016-03-17, 12:45 pm)CureDolly Wrote: I prefer to learn the kanji as part of words, but the Heisig method is also good for people who prefer that approach.
But I really do think that however one learns the kanji themselves, one really should learn the readings as part of words. Learning lists of readings in the abstract is really a path to frustration.
One thing that I do feel is under-used is the fact that certain kanji elements (and you will be well aware of a kanji's elements from Heisig) very often indicate the on-reading of a word.
Perhaps because it isn't by any means a strict rule, people tend to ignore this, but it really can make a huge difference in learning how words are pronounced.
In this case I do recommend learning some of the basic sound-elements (not a huge job). But having done so, I would recommend learning words and their readings.
Having met the sound-sisters makes this a lot easier!
Your mnemonics of the Show Sisters reminded me of the Movie Method
This method of learning on-readings has always interested me but I'm just to lazy to make up mnemonics xD lol
RE: Kanji sounds (is there a "principal" pronunciation?) - CureDolly - 2016-03-18
(2016-03-17, 4:12 pm)RawrPk Wrote: Your mnemonics of the Show Sisters reminded me of the Movie Method
For the most part I don't go in for learning readings in the abstract, so I wouldn't personally use the Movie Method.
But the Sound Sisters are applicable to such a range of kanji that learning them really is an efficient investment in my view. For a relatively small number of learned "facts" you get help with a very large number of kanji.
It might be more applicable to my learn-kanji-as-words approach since you do in fact have to end up knowing the words in order to know when a Sound Sister is applicable -- but then you do have to end up knowing the words whatever method you use!
When climbing the mountain of kanji-vocabulary, though, acquiring the Sound Sisters first is like buying a grappling-iron. At least that is how I've found it.
RE: Kanji sounds (is there a "principal" pronunciation?) - RawrPk - 2016-03-18
My main approach for kanji is RTK for visual distinction and what you stated as "learn-kanji-as-words approach" for readings. The movie method/mnemonics was always something I considered tackling for only a small amount of kanji homophones, not all of them.
Which BTW, I copied your Sound Sisters mnemonics into my OneNote! Its really neat