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How to handle words with similar meanins and/or readings. - Printable Version

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How to handle words with similar meanins and/or readings. - webredn7 - 2016-02-28

Hi. I recently finished RTK1 and started learning vocabulary with an Anki Core 6k deck. Currently I am past 500th word.

But I am having some problems remembering words which are written very similar and/or have similar meanings. For example, there is 上 and 6-7 other words which have similar meanings and readings: 上がる - "go up,rise", 上がる - "get nervous, get stage fright", 上げる, 上る (I just listed some of them).

How do you handle those words? Is there a way to remember them more easily and without mistaking them with each other? Or do you just focus on pronunciation? Or do you just suspend them until you meet them in a text?

Thanks in advance Smile.

RE: How to handle words with similar meanins and/or readings. - cophnia61 - 2016-02-28

(2016-02-28, 9:27 am)webredn7 Wrote: Hi. I recently finished RTK1 and started learning vocabulary with an Anki Core 6k deck. Currently I am past 500th word.

But I am having some problems remembering words which are written very similar and/or have similar meanings. For example, there is 上 and 6-7 other words which have similar meanings and readings: 上がる - "go up,rise", 上がる - "get nervous, get stage fright", 上げる, 上る (I just listed some of them).

How do you handle those words? Is there a way to remember them more easily and without mistaking them with each other? Or do you just focus on pronunciation? Or do you just suspend them until you meet them in a text?

Thanks in advance Smile.

If the reading and/or meaning depends only on the context (same exact okurigana), you need to rely on the context given by the sentence.

If the word has different okurigana you can rely on that (and context too).

RE: How to handle words with similar meanins and/or readings. - webredn7 - 2016-02-28

(2016-02-28, 9:33 am)cophnia61 Wrote: If the reading and/or meaning depends only on the context (same exact okurigana), you need to rely on the context given by the sentence.

If the word has different okurigana you can rely on that (and context too).

I see. Thanks for your quick reply. So, in the second case do I just have to bruteforce it into my memory? Or is there more systematic/easier approach?

P.S. Sorry if the question is stupid. It's just RTK1 was so simple and convenient...

RE: How to handle words with similar meanins and/or readings. - mc962 - 2016-02-28

Some of it is context (such as when the word is exactly the same), and some of it is grammar related 上げる｜上がる、見つける｜見つかる

I don't know where you are in grammar, so this might be a little farther out, but this might be helpful to read about.
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/in-transitive

^Generally I tell the difference between these two during my anki reviews by looking at the particles, which are different for transitive/intransitive verbs

RE: How to handle words with similar meanins and/or readings. - Vempele - 2016-02-28

See also this thread and the link in the first post.

(2016-02-28, 11:43 am)mc962 Wrote: ^Generally I tell the difference between these two during my anki reviews by looking at the particles, which are different for transitive/intransitive verbs
You'll eventually learn to tell the difference just by looking at the verb, even for verbs you've never seen before. Smile

RE: How to handle words with similar meanins and/or readings. - cophnia61 - 2016-02-28

(2016-02-28, 9:46 am)webredn7 Wrote:
(2016-02-28, 9:33 am)cophnia61 Wrote: If the reading and/or meaning depends only on the context (same exact okurigana), you need to rely on the context given by the sentence.

If the word has different okurigana you can rely on that (and context too).

I see. Thanks for your quick reply. So, in the second case do I just have to bruteforce it into my memory? Or is there more systematic/easier approach?

P.S. Sorry if the question is stupid. It's just RTK1 was so simple and convenient...

I have issues with them too xD

For example:

焦[こ]げる to burn; to be burned
焦[あせ]る to be in a hurry; to be impatient

I rely on the fact that the first has "げ" after the kanji, but it's harder to notice when they are inflected :/

染 [そ]める <--- I learned this months ago, and only recently I learned 染[し]みる so I had a hard time trying to keep the two readings apart ._.

Then there are words as 埋める which can be read both as う.める or うず.める
From the examples sentence it seems that it reads as "umeru" when it refers to a phisical burying action (

[*]"Dogs often bury bones.") while it reads as "uzumeru" when it's more methaphorical ("Keiko buried her head in the pillow and cried.")

Sometimes it's hard to even understand when to use one reading and when to use the other.
[*]See the word "上下", when is it "ueshita" and when is it "jyouge"? English definitions are a little confusing and generical, so I had to check a japanese dictionary to clearly see the difference.

RE: How to handle words with similar meanins and/or readings. - anotherjohn - 2016-02-28

cophnia61 Wrote:"Dogs often bury bones.") while it reads as "uzumeru" when it's more methaphorical ("Keiko buried her head in the pillow and cried.")
That's exactly what I thought until I did the core 10k (the bit past the first 6k), in which they always read it うめる no matter what. Still haven't resolved that.

cophnia61 Wrote:焦[こ]げる to burn; to be burned
焦[あせ]る to be in a hurry; to be impatient
Worse for me is 焦[あせ]る vs 漁[あさ]る. Still have to pause for that one & fall back to imagery based on 汗 vs 猿

RE: How to handle words with similar meanins and/or readings. - webredn7 - 2016-02-29

Thanks for you help everyone! I read about transitive and intransitive verbs in Japanese, and it somewhat helped. I've also added sentences to the front sides of the cards, and after reading them everything becomes clear Smile.

RE: How to handle words with similar meanins and/or readings. - pm215 - 2016-02-29

(2016-02-28, 3:55 pm)cophnia61 Wrote: Then there are words as 埋める which can be read both as う.める or うず.める
From the examples sentence it seems that it reads as "umeru" when it refers to a phisical burying action ("Dogs often bury bones.") while it reads as "uzumeru" when it's more methaphorical ("Keiko buried her head in the pillow and cried.")
I looked these up when I ran across them in Core10k, and I found Sanseido's usage note pretty helpful. They say that for うめる the "filling a hole or dent with something" meaning is stronger, and for うずめる the "an empty place being completely covered over" meaning is stronger. So some cases will allow either (eg 「土で穴をうめる（うずめる）」), sometimes you can use either but the meaning shifts a bit, and some expressions are pretty much fixed and only take one of the two. But I don't think it's as simple as metaphorical vs physical (Sanseido has 「欠員をうめる」 as only うめる, for instance).

RE: How to handle words with similar meanins and/or readings. - Vempele - 2016-02-29

I think we had a native speaker (probably magamo) say pretty much the same thing you did, many years ago (IIRC long before I joined, but you were probably a member even back then).

抱く is the prefect example of a metaphorical vs physical divide :
いだく (hold an emotion <in one's heart>)
だく (hug... or have sex, probably best to just always use one of the compound verbs when you're talking about だくing a person in a non-sexual way. Most of the examples in Kenkyuusha are about holding a baby or child in one's lap or arms).

RE: How to handle words with similar meanins and/or readings. - yukamina - 2016-02-29

Words that look the same but have more than one reading always get me. I don't know what to do about them, because it's so hard to figure out the difference. J-J dictionaries often list the alternate pronunciations in the definition. These are some verbs that trip me up (never mind other types of words):

抱く　だく　vs　いだく
描く　かく　vs　えがく
埋める　うめる　vs　うずめる
擦る　こする　vs　かする vs　する　vs　なする
堪える　たえる　vs　こらえる

避ける　よける　vs　さける　on this one I came to the conclusion that よける is used when dodging things physically while さける　is like avoiding a person or situation.

Some of these were already mentioned and there are more that I can't think of right now. I wish there was a list of them all with explanations on usage and meaning nuances...

RE: How to handle words with similar meanins and/or readings. - Vempele - 2016-03-01

擦る in order of commonness:
こする: The default reading.
する: Mostly in compounds. The only non-compound pattern I've noticed is that it's used with cloth; I remember this because of its connection to すれる->衣擦れ.
かする: 掠る is the more common kanji for this one. Implies damage (a stratch), unlike こする. 擦 is used in 擦り傷.

In the "Huh, apparently these can be written 擦る, I never knew." category:
なする: Only ever seen this word in なすりつける (specifically the "lay the blame on" meaning), and it'll be written in kana.
さする: 摩る or kana. Lighter touch than こする.
なぞる: There's a kanji for なぞる? The focus is on the tracing of <shapes>.

描く
えがく: 弧を描く and 思い描く - in the air, in your mind, not on a solid surface. Focus is more on what is being drawn than what you're drawing it on.
かく: the physical act of drawing something. It's the same word as 書く, just with a more specific kanji.

避ける: your conclusion is correct.

堪える
こらえる is the default. Usually pain/suffering or holding back laughter/tears/anger/...
たえる is normally 耐える (tolerate without breaking). 堪える seems to be more common in idioms (こらえる/こたえる won't make any sense for them).
こたえる: Don't hear this often enough to know when it should be read this way (but obviously not very often).

RE: How to handle words with similar meanins and/or readings. - cophnia61 - 2016-03-01

Yukamina, I feel you! Those are the same words which are causing me brain scratch!

Thank you Vemplele for your explanation, especially for the 擦る one!

RE: How to handle words with similar meanins and/or readings. - yukamina - 2016-03-01

Thanks Vempele! I hadn't made the connection between the reading  かする    and　掠る, even though I knew the latter.
 参考になりました


I've been studying more vocab lately, and I've taken to looking up words on Weblio and goo to see which readings come up for jukugo. Sometimes only one reading shows up with these dicitonaries, so I go with that one.