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+--- Thread: Motivation for learning Japanese (/thread-13609.html)
Motivation for learning Japanese - NumesSanguis - 2016-02-25
Hey,
I'm a student going in 1 month to Japan for a full master with a MEXT scholarship. Also I'm making an app to study the Japanese Kanji (but I don't want this forum topic to be about this).
Since I'm about to go to Japan I want to speak and understand Japanese, I truly do. I want to be able to communicate with my fellow Japanese students in Japanese. So I should spent this full month studying as much Japanese as I can.
However somehow things like "I want to understand Japanese", "I want to communicate in Japanese" are to vague as a concrete goal. I notice how I want to spend a day learning Japanese, but I end up doing not so much besides watching some anime without subtitles (which is a great way to learn non the less). I want to do more than just a few things Japanese and be happy with a learning day like that.
I notice that with the pressure I put on myself to study as much Japanese as possible only results in anxiety that in turn makes me study less Japanese. I need the fun back in wanting to learn Japanese instead of it becoming a chore I have to do (although I understand that for some parts of Japanese you have to go through tedious studying).
I was wondering what kind of concrete goals you set or other things to keep yourself more active with learning Japanese?
RE: Motivation for learning Japanese - yogert909 - 2016-02-26
You didn't mention what your current level is. You have to know some Japanese to get those scholarships don't you?
If you are really starting from beginner, one month really isn't a lot of time if you are talking about learning Japanese. You are correct in thinking that you need to specialize on concrete goals.
You can forget about learning a kanji or a bunch of random words in that short timeframe. That takes months or years. If it were me, I would study practical "survival" Japanese and pick specific things to learn that you are sure you will use when you get there. Things like ordering in restaurants, reading train maps and timetables, what people might ask you in the convenience store, hello, thank you, would you like this in a bag, and so on. You could pick up a phrase book like lonely planet or browse a website like maggie sensei has some good phrases that you can use on the first day. Remember you need to understand a lot more Japanese than you can speak in order to interact with people.
RE: Motivation for learning Japanese - NumesSanguis - 2016-02-26
Sorry. I've been studying Japanese for a longer time now. It's hard to pinpoint my level since I've not really been studying from books but more from watching anime and hanging out with Japanese students studying abroad (but mostly talking in English). Also I studied half a year for an exchange program in Japan, during which I also took a Japanese course.
I think my understanding of a normal Japanese conversation is getting pretty good, but my speaking is far below that. Reading is limited to Kana and recognizing some Kanji. Writing is my worst skill.
My master program is in English, so learning Japanese is purely for communication. Therefore my focus is more on listening and especially speaking. I want to take the more immersive method of learning Japanese by doing as much as possible in Japanese (even if I don't fully understand).
This forum topic is not really meant as looking for ways to study Japanese, but more for hearing stories about how you kept up with studying when you start to notice that you're falling behind of how much you wanted to study. How did you get your motivation back and kept yourself going? Did you set goals? What kind of goals?
RE: Motivation for learning Japanese - Zgarbas - 2016-02-27
I just used jlpt levels as goals. Did wonders, really; Once i was done with those I lost my motivation, though.
RE: Motivation for learning Japanese - sholum - 2016-02-27
I'm using the JLPT as a goal, but probably my biggest motivation, currently, is my conversation practice with my tutor; I hate not being able to communicate my ideas, so every time we have a conversation, I get this feeling of not being satisfied, so it makes me want to learn more. For example, I showed her a video (here) about a super computer that is being used to simulate all matters of the heart (blood flow, individual muscle contractions, side-effects of drugs, oxygen flow, nerve impulses, etc), and could barely express my excitement about it beyond これはすごいですね...
I recently started doing more writing practice too, so I have that same motivation while I'm trying to produce coherent communication through writing. I'm really not that good at production at all, so I make use of my frustration to improve (I don't know how to say this! Okay, let's start searching what might work to see if people say it that way; hmm... maybe I can get some hints from Japanese translations of this phrasing. Okay, I've written it, now to find out if it's right.)
If you're not working with a tutor or have someone to converse with regularly, I suggest you find one. Having someone to talk to (and subsequently embarrass myself in front of) has really helped me, both in terms of learning and motivation (in regards to improving my speaking, at least; I'm mostly on auto-pilot with reading, recently).
RE: Motivation for learning Japanese - angelneko - 2016-02-27
big congrats on your scholarship. a good friend of mine just got MEXT too and i'm terribly excited for her and a bit jealous
anyway like others have said, JLPT is my main motivation to study.
since i teach myself, i have no real structure to my learning. that is why the JLPT format gives me the structure i need to teach myself grammar, vocab, and reading.
i know JLPT is not the be-all end-all, because language is so much more than that, but for the most part, that's all i do.
i also have quite a few friends within the japanese community in my city, and though most are proficient in english, i try to force us to converse in japanese for my sake.
good luck and congrats again!!
edit @sholum
i totally relate to "I hate not being able to communicate my ideas"
JLPT doesnt cover writing or speaking so its crucial to make friends or find a tutor to get the full package
RE: Motivation for learning Japanese - Bokusenou - 2016-02-27
JLPT tests are great motivation for a while, but like Zgarbas I felt kind of aimless after I passed N1, so make sure you have a goal to go for after passing all the JLPT tests.
RE: Motivation for learning Japanese - NumesSanguis - 2016-02-27
Thank you for all your stories
Personally I don't really like the idea of studying for JLPT tests as I care more about getting my thoughts across than perfect simple sentences (when spending the same amount of learning time). I prefer to get a feeling of Japanese by being surrounded by a lot of Japanese, but it's really great it got you all so far in Japanese! Maybe it's a good thing to try to pass these tests when I'm approaching N2 and N1. I want to improve my knowledge of Kanji though, so I can start reading manga with furigana. Learning in context is a great thing
I like the idea of having a Japanese tutor / friend, so thank you for increasing the motivation to find someone like that. Finding someone I really want to get my thoughts across is great for practice!
@angelneko, thank you ^_^ It's a popular scholarship, so I consider myself really lucky to get it
I hope you can also find your way into Japan!
RE: Motivation for learning Japanese - zx573 - 2016-02-27
@NumesSanguis
For me personally, I got to a point where I could understand enough of basic conversations and then started chatting with Japanese friends for a good 2 or 3 years as my primary source of "study". I picked up quite a lot toward the beginning and eventually became conversationally fluent I guess, because I was able to hold everyday conversations with little issue saying what I wanted, but I stopped actually learning new things after a while. There is a LOT that you are not exposed to in conversations with friends. I think that's one of the strengths of tests like JLPT (and the native Japanese-targeted tests once you pass N1). They have a progression that usually makes sense, so even if you hit a wall or plateau like I did, you know what the next step in progression should be. A lot of people use JLPT as a benchmark to figure out what to study next even if they don't plan on taking the test for that reason.
I also used JLPT as a motivation for studying like some others. My main motivation right now is that I want to work in Japan after I graduate at the end of the year, which has been a long term goal of mine for a long time, so I'm using N1 (passed N2 last December after a little bit of studying) as a way to continue studying even more while I learn other more useful things. It honestly felt great to pass N2 (my first JLPT test) after having studied for so long but never having any real measure of skill besides Japanese people saying "日本語上手だね！" for the millionth time after you use a squiggly character.
RE: Motivation for learning Japanese - Zgarbas - 2016-02-27
Just for the record, if you care about getting your thoughts across then you should care about the <=n3 level Corectness. Any mistakes below that level are bound to fundamentally change the meaning of your ideas
I'm projecting a bit, but there is this misconception that the jlpt has nothing to do with irl japanese, and that's based on some misunderstandings about what the jlpts actually entail.
RE: Motivation for learning Japanese - SomeCallMeChris - 2016-02-28
Honestly... my motivations have always been consuming Japanese media. Reading manga was my first goal, and then reading light novels, and of course watching Anime... and dramas... and movies.
Hitting barriers in those media is what motivates my study. Whenever reading or listening to something become too difficult or frustrating, it will ... or would ... push me to do some serious study. At this point though, other than the occasional dive into the dictionary, I don't really do a lot of formal 'study'. I've got pretty much all the grammar down -- on the recognition side anyway, and my production isn't -terrible-. Vocab building at this point is just more enjoyable if I just read something and look up what I need to look up.
A little -too- much so, I think it's been 6 months or more since I added a card to Anki and months also since I reviewed.... and I've definitely looked up words again that I know I have cards for. :o
I will say though, that reading is by -far- the best way to build vocabulary. I think you should do whatever you need to (RTK, kanjidamage, studying the radicals, whatever method appeals to you) to get past the kanji barrier and check out the manga and novels that some of your favorite anime are derived from!
I also think you'll find life -much- better if you can read reasonably well. There are going to be bills and notices and all sorts of things that are just part of daily life, and they'll all be in Japanese if you're in Japan. And personally I think Japanese is just an incredibly enjoyable language for leisure reading. To me, at least, literary Japanese is just really beautiful. Not in the sense of the Kanji being pretty (although it is, IMO), but just in the way the words can be put together. The way Japanese makes it so easy to put in these clauses that modify a noun in ways that you just can't do in English makes for some wonderfully expressive sentences.
While it -is- the same language, you don't usually find the full expressiveness of the language used in the spoken form. That's probably true in any language, of course, but if you like the Japanese language then I would expect you'd enjoy it even more when you see it used to its fullest potential.
A bit of a side point but,
(2016-02-27, 11:31 pm)Zgarbas Wrote: there is this misconception that the jlpt has nothing to do with irl japanese, and that's based on some misunderstandings about what the jlpts actually entail.
Personally, I never explicitly studied for the JLPT. I studied to be able to read and then I read. And eventually I passed the JLPT N1 test. The JLPT quite simply tests whether or not you can accurately understand people speaking in standard Japanese, and whether or not you can read opinion pieces in Japanese at a reasonable speed. There are a ton of things in 'real Japanese' that the test doesn't test, but there is nothing in the test that isn't part of 'real Japanese'. Other than a few individual words here and there, there was nothing in the test that I hadn't encountered in the wild... and give enough time, I'm quite sure i would see every vocabulary word that appears on the test. In fact, I already knew quite a few words that were footnoted with a definition. (Pro-tip! If you're taking the test, and you know the word, don't waste your time looking down and reading their definition. The test is in many ways a test of reading speed and reading definitions you already know will only slow you down.)
If you're familiar enough with Japanese to read all the articles at a decent speed, then you should be able to breeze through the other parts of the written test just on intuition, by picking what 'looks' or 'sounds' right to you even if you never learned a specific rule.
The listening test is just dead easy compared to the written test... except for, you know, being spoken at close to normal speed. It's really just purely a test of whether or not you can understand what you're hearing... the questions, if written down instead of spoken, would be the easiest questions on the test. Of course since they -are- spoken, well, you need listening comprehension skills.
RE: Motivation for learning Japanese - Zgarbas - 2016-02-28
Oh you can definitely pass the jlpt without actually studying for it, I was just referring to the 'perfect little japanese sentences' comment.
RE: Motivation for learning Japanese - rainmaninjapan - 2016-02-29
Aside from practical reasons, learning Japanese allows me to relabel the time I would have spent anyway watching videos or reading from "wasted time" to "learning Japanese".
RE: Motivation for learning Japanese - RawrPk - 2016-02-29
Like many members here, I use the jlpt as a goal setting bar to help motivate me with studying Japanese. I am more interested in consuming media and making friends but these 2 things actually demotivate me due to my current language skills. Also the other 2 reasons are for me vague goals (though for others they are specific). My specific goal is to study for the N3 exam in December. With that, I have specific goals:
- Listening: watch at least 1 raw episode of a show/day
- Reading: read at least 1 manga chapter/day
- Kanji: RTK and eventually N3 so matome
- Vocab: core 2k/6k, other vocab deck from native media/sources and eventually N3 so matome
- Grammar: see this post
For setting goals in general, it is good to pinpoint what you want to achieve out of setting these goals. Here is an article from FluentU which has some great examples of making specific goals to your language learning needs. http://www.fluentu.com/blog/success-in-language-learning/
Since you are going to school in Japan, this example might be something you were looking to do (some editing required):
Quote:Ultimate goal: To be able to speakChineseJapanese comfortably so that I can move toChinaJapan and useChineseJapanese in my everyday life.
Specific step: Learn the vocabulary and phrases necessary to go shopping inChinaJapan.
Short-term goals: By the end of this week, I will have learned the vocabulary words for types of clothing and shoes. By the end of the month, I will have learned the phrases and basic vocabulary needed to talk to shop clerks inChinaJapan.
Hope this helps
RE: Motivation for learning Japanese - NumesSanguis - 2016-03-01
Thank you all for your ideas and inspiration!
I now see JLPT in a better daylight, although I will put that on my long-term goal when I'm reaching N2 levels.
Quote:Honestly... my motivations have always been consuming Japanese media. Reading manga was my first goal, and then reading light novels, and of course watching Anime... and dramas... and movies.I also really like the idea of studying while having fun consuming media.
I watched 40 eps of raw Doreamon before it became a bit too hard to continue watching a children show. Then I moved on to Inuyasha raw, but after 20 eps I felt the vocabulary was focused too much on fighting and demons. Currently I'm watching GTO (Great Teacher Onizuka) raw at ep 25. I'm enjoying the show and I can follow most of the Japanese
Quote:Aside from practical reasons, learning Japanese allows me to relabel the time I would have spent anyway watching videos or reading from "wasted time" to "learning Japanese".Same here :p
While I'm watching raw anime, I'm also studying the Kanji (focused on remembering the english meanings) and I hope to go through this as fast as possible so I can start reading manga with furigana, so that I can associate the right pronounciation in the right context to the Kanji.
Quote:Short-term goals: By the end of this week, I will have learned the vocabulary words for types of clothing and shoes. By the end of the month, I will have learned the phrases and basic vocabulary needed to talk to shop clerks in China Japan.I like the idea of picking up Japanese while enjoying, but actually some specific topic study might be a good addition.