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[Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - s0apgun - 2015-12-14
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - Bokusenou - 2015-12-14
To be fair, if you did something similar with English speakers, you'd probably see a bunch of misspellings as well. Spell check is great until you can't rely on it. That said, I rarely handwrite things in English anyway, despite living in the US. Mostly just for forms I can't fill out online & greeting card notes. Pretty much everything else I type and print out. xD
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - debrucey - 2015-12-14
My handwriting has always been messy, but all this writing practice for kana and kanji has led to a revived interest in practising calligraphy in English as well as Japanese. And writing by hand often really does increase memory retention, I think.
It makes sense that people who read often but write by hand rarely (especially with modern phones/computers filling in all the kanji for you) would have trouble writing random words like this.
The comparison to English is interesting though. Bokusenou is right that if you asked English people how to write random words there would be a lot of spelling mistakes, but pretty much everyone would get very close to the actual spelling. English spelling is a bit wacky, but you can usually have a stab at it and get it almost right. When you forget a kanji, however, it's a total and profound kind of forgetting that you would almost never experience in English.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - Roketzu - 2015-12-14
I wouldn't have any problems writing the words in the video while sitting at home, but whether I'd have the presence of mind to recall them upon being presented with a whiteboard and a pen by a stranger with a camera out in the street is another thing altogether. The kanji he chose aren't the easiest to recall, even if they are simple and familiar words.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - anotherjohn - 2015-12-14
Struggle with writing, yet can effortlessly skim-read those words without even thinking about it.
Lesson there methinks.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - yogert909 - 2015-12-14
(2015-12-14, 4:22 pm)anotherjohn Wrote: Struggle with writing, yet can effortlessly skim-read those words without even thinking about it.
Lesson there methinks.
Writing and reading are different skills processed in different parts of the brain. Interestingly, there are people with rare brain disorders(pure alexia) who can write perfectly well, but cannot read what they themselves just wrote.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - sholum - 2015-12-14
(2015-12-14, 5:48 pm)yogert909 Wrote:(2015-12-14, 4:22 pm)anotherjohn Wrote: Struggle with writing, yet can effortlessly skim-read those words without even thinking about it.
Lesson there methinks.
Writing and reading are different skills processed in different parts of the brain. Interestingly, there are people with rare brain disorders(pure alexia) who can write perfectly well, but cannot read what they themselves just wrote.
Just in case anyone is too lazy to read one of the shortest pages on a medical condition I've ever seen on Wikipedia...
That's an acquired dyslexia that only affects the visual recognition of letters. The afflicted likely already have all of the language skills they need and are merely unable to access written word recognition through visual stimuli (though some can be rehabilitated to read incredibly slowly). They know how words are spelled and can understand a word that is verbally spelled for them.
While it does illustrate the difference between input and output paths in the brain, it doesn't support the idea that "Writing and reading are different skills processed in different parts of the brain.", since the only reason these people are unable to read is because visual data can't be sent from the right visual cortex to the language centers of the brain (which are in the left hemisphere). The reason they can still write is because there is no disruption in the path between these areas and the motor cortex.
That is, they can spell perfectly fine, and would be able to read just as well if it weren't for this disruption. It's nearly the same as talking about how blind people can write; they are physically incapable of seeing written letters, but have no such barrier to prevent them from writing them.
It would be cool to figure out why one can read something that they can't write, though. The best I can figure (in not psychology terms) is that it's a combination of how the visual input has been trimmed down before being processed as language (you kinda know what the character looks like, but can't recall it's shape perfectly from memory, even though your brain has connections related to that exact stimulus) and the fact that images can't be directly translated into procedural instructions for the motor cortex to command your hand (you know what it looks like, but not how to reproduce it). Once you try to write the character, you can look at it and tell whether it's wrong or not (the more fonts and handwriting you've seen, the better you'll be able to judge it, though).
The core of the matter is that input and output processes are completely different from each other because one is receiving and processing meaning out of information that is filtered after being collected and the other uses specific procedures to enact a result.
More On Topic:
I remember seeing a video about how the Japanese are forgetting kanji that they don't write regularly, due to the introduction of word processing. Rather than being about producing the correct compound, it was about being able to write certain characters correctly. I agree that, in the case of this video, it seems much more similar to the effects of spell check on written English, but I think the video I'm remembering could be more inline with the decline in clean handwriting, specifically cursive (though I know some people who's handwriting sucks who didn't have the same access to typing that I did, mainly because computers didn't exist yet and typing took too long for what they were doing; they're all engineers... I wonder what's up with that).
I'm just old enough to have been in school both while they still insisted on learning cursive and when they finally decided that reading children's handwriting isn't a good use of the teachers' time (excuse me? That's about a quarter of their job during the compulsory school years; the rest being one-quarter math and one-half babysitting) and insisted that we type everything... I only just realized the connection between the cursive and print 's' when I was doodling in my notebook (I was amused when I figured it out... I'm easily amused by simple things).
Anyway, it has significantly impacted the use of cursive (and even the quality of print-style handwriting) in the States. Some bemoan it, others say that there's no point in cursive when we have computers. Personally, I think it's good to be able to write, even if you only ever use it for your signature.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - gaiaslastlaugh - 2015-12-14
(2015-12-14, 7:11 pm)sholum Wrote: More On Topic:I don't know if it's been officially studied, but informal surveys in recent years show that most Japanese believe the proliferation of cell phones and PCs is whittling away their ability to write.
I remember seeing a video about how the Japanese are forgetting kanji that they don't write regularly, due to the introduction of word processing. Rather than being about producing the correct compound, it was about being able to write certain characters correctly. I agree that, in the case of this video, it seems much more similar to the effects of spell check on written English, but I think the video I'm remembering could be more inline with the decline in clean handwriting, specifically cursive (though I know some people who's handwriting sucks who didn't have the same access to typing that I did, mainly because computers didn't exist yet and typing took too long for what they were doing; they're all engineers... I wonder what's up with that).
http://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXNASDG2004I_Q2A920C1CR8000/
http://news.livedoor.com/article/detail/9978179/
This is accompanied by all the usual hand-wringing that has accompanied the effective death of cursive in the US.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - Raulsen - 2015-12-14
(2015-12-14, 7:35 pm)gaiaslastlaugh Wrote:(2015-12-14, 7:11 pm)sholum Wrote: More On Topic:I don't know if it's been officially studied, but informal surveys in recent years show that most Japanese believe the proliferation of cell phones and PCs is whittling away their ability to write.
I remember seeing a video about how the Japanese are forgetting kanji that they don't write regularly, due to the introduction of word processing. Rather than being about producing the correct compound, it was about being able to write certain characters correctly. I agree that, in the case of this video, it seems much more similar to the effects of spell check on written English, but I think the video I'm remembering could be more inline with the decline in clean handwriting, specifically cursive (though I know some people who's handwriting sucks who didn't have the same access to typing that I did, mainly because computers didn't exist yet and typing took too long for what they were doing; they're all engineers... I wonder what's up with that).
http://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXNASDG2004I_Q2A920C1CR8000/
http://news.livedoor.com/article/detail/9978179/
This is accompanied by all the usual hand-wringing that has accompanied the effective death of cursive in the US.
Good riddance, I say. While it's certainly an attractive script, it's the furthest thing from relevant. I still have nightmares about my middle school teachers who wouldn't accept anything if it wasn't written in cursive.
On a slightly related note, am I the only one who'd be interested to see what input methods Japanese prefer with smartphones and such? I'm in love with the Kana 9-Key option (the swiping was a genius idea), but it seems like the straight-up Romaji input might be fairly common too.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - vix86 - 2015-12-14
(2015-12-14, 7:11 pm)sholum Wrote: It would be cool to figure out why one can read something that they can't write, though. The best I can figure (in not psychology terms) is that it's a combination of how the visual input has been trimmed down before being processed as language (you kinda know what the character looks like, but can't recall it's shape perfectly from memory, even though your brain has connections related to that exact stimulus) and the fact that images can't be directly translated into procedural instructions for the motor cortex to command your hand (you know what it looks like, but not how to reproduce it).This is pretty much it. Visual recognition is a pattern matching network that only has an input that whittles down the characters to a meaning (if you know it). You can't run these networks in reverse though. I think
part of the reason why some people sort-of know what a character is that they've only learned to recognize by sight is that they've stored it into a part of memory that also gets referenced by writing/output. Its one of the weirdest feelings to be able to see a character, kind of, in your head but as soon as you pick up the pen and put it to paper, it vanishes.
(2015-12-14, 7:45 pm)Raulsen Wrote: Good riddance, I say. While it's certainly an attractive script, it's the furthest thing from relevant. I still have nightmares about my middle school teachers who wouldn't accept anything if it wasn't written in cursive.Most Japanese that I've seen, use the 9-key kana swipe.
On a slightly related note, am I the only one who'd be interested to see what input methods Japanese prefer with smartphones and such? I'm in love with the Kana 9-Key option (the swiping was a genius idea), but it seems like the straight-up Romaji input might be fairly common too.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - sholum - 2015-12-14
(2015-12-14, 7:45 pm)Raulsen Wrote: Good riddance, I say. While it's certainly an attractive script, it's the furthest thing from relevant. I still have nightmares about my middle school teachers who wouldn't accept anything if it wasn't written in cursive.
On a slightly related note, am I the only one who'd be interested to see what input methods Japanese prefer with smartphones and such? I'm in love with the Kana 9-Key option (the swiping was a genius idea), but it seems like the straight-up Romaji input might be fairly common too.
Cursive looks cleaner when writing fast though...
I agree that there's not much practical use for it anymore, but I do think it's important to at least teach children enough so that they can write their name (don't know if they do this or not); even now, a lot of forms require a signature, but in just a few years there's going to be tons of young adults who were never taught to write in cursive that will need to sign legally binding contracts or official letters.
I asked my tutor about computer input before; she said that a lot of people use the kana input on those Japanese keyboards rather than using romaji input (and on her phone, she uses the default(?) Japanese keyboard on the iPhone). I had asked because I always thought that those keyboards looked really uncomfortable (considering you have four(?) rows of frequently used character keys).
I found this question on touch typing:
http://oshiete.goo.ne.jp/qa/5650379.html
It seems like most people (based on this) prefer kana input for typing Japanese, but some people seem to like romaji input as well. Response 12 went into the pros and cons of both; it was interesting to read.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - yogert909 - 2015-12-14
(2015-12-14, 9:33 pm)vix86 Wrote: This is pretty much it. Visual recognition is a pattern matching network that only has an input that whittles down the characters to a meaning (if you know it). You can't run these networks in reverse though. I think
part of the reason why some people sort-of know what a character is that they've only learned to recognize by sight is that they've stored it into a part of memory that also gets referenced by writing/output. Its one of the weirdest feelings to be able to see a character, kind of, in your head but as soon as you pick up the pen and put it to paper, it vanishes.
I don't have any proof of this, but I suspect we really aren't storing characters in our memory as a photo like image. I think it's much fuzzier than that. So we wouldn't be able to draw them from memory because the memory isn't fully there. My anecdotal evidence of this is that I know really well what my car looks like, or my house, or the coca-cola logo, but I couldn't draw any of these from memory. Additionally, there are some things that we see every day, but we probably don't even register unless we know to look for it. So it's expected that people could be really good at identifying a character, but not be able to draw it.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - Dudeist - 2015-12-15
I never types anything till around my last year of university. What killed my cursive was having to speed write notes. Especially when you had those teachers whose idea of teaching was to just hammer out overhead after overhead and you spend most of your time writing as fast as possible.
By the time I got to uni I often had trouble reading my own hand writing.
Spell check is however killing what little spelling ability I might of had.
Oddly enough as I pointed out elsewhere, going through RTK production style has done wonders for improving my ability to write cursive in a readable manner. I know some won't like my word choice but it seems all that practice in drawing complicated characters helps when drawing out English script. I think my hand control might be improving... at least if I take my time.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - vix86 - 2015-12-15
sholum Wrote:I agree that there's not much practical use for it anymore, but I do think it's important to at least teach children enough so that they can write their name (don't know if they do this or not); even now, a lot of forms require a signature, but in just a few years there's going to be tons of young adults who were never taught to write in cursive that will need to sign legally binding contracts or official letters.Some schools might be phasing it out but I suspect many still teach it. Honestly its not that important that people need to know this. If you simply teach/tell kids that they need to learn to write their name fast in like 4-7 seconds. You'll end up with something pretty cursive-like. There's also no rule/law that says documents need to be signed in cursive, you could just as easily sign it in a cursive-ish print fashion; I've done it before.
(2015-12-14, 10:04 pm)yogert909 Wrote: I don't have any proof of this, but I suspect we really aren't storing characters in our memory as a photo like image. I think it's much fuzzier than that. So we wouldn't be able to draw them from memory because the memory isn't fully there. My anecdotal evidence of this is that I know really well what my car looks like, or my house, or the coca-cola logo, but I couldn't draw any of these from memory. Additionally, there are some things that we see every day, but we probably don't even register unless we know to look for it. So it's expected that people could be really good at identifying a character, but not be able to draw it.There are videos that go over this everywhere. Memory isn't a "look in this filing cabinet and pull whats in there," memory is a reconstructive process. Its all about breaking things into chunks you can recall and rebuild to a form that you can use. Chinese characters are based around this pretty much; its how everyone that's doing RTK learns the Kanji. Its probably more apparent when you are asked to recall a point in time; such as what you did over a vacation. You probably rebuild from the start of the vacation chronologically what you did, and might recall something funny when you get to the point where you are recalling what you did for dinner on the 2nd night of vacation. That memory didn't pop out though until you hit that point.
Incidentally, this why first hand accounts, even minutes after something happened, are poor. Unless you have a photographic memory, you aren't remembering everything and maybe not even accurately. You can obviously improve this by repeated exposure and chunking. You can't remember what your car looks like exactly, but if you trained your visual memory and treated recalling your car like you do studying Japanese/language, you could.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - sholum - 2015-12-15
(2015-12-15, 1:02 am)vix86 Wrote:sholum Wrote:I agree that there's not much practical use for it anymore, but I do think it's important to at least teach children enough so that they can write their name (don't know if they do this or not); even now, a lot of forms require a signature, but in just a few years there's going to be tons of young adults who were never taught to write in cursive that will need to sign legally binding contracts or official letters.Some schools might be phasing it out but I suspect many still teach it. Honestly its not that important that people need to know this. If you simply teach/tell kids that they need to learn to write their name fast in like 4-7 seconds. You'll end up with something pretty cursive-like. There's also no rule/law that says documents need to be signed in cursive, you could just as easily sign it in a cursive-ish print fashion; I've done it before.
It's more about professionalism... I've had the proper form and the perspectives of businessmen explained to me from a young age (I avoid the phrase 'hammered into me' because there was no punishment for doing things differently, I was just told that it looks better to others if you do <thing>).
While it will change over time, it seems like the initial wave of people who don't know how to write will be met with unfavorable opinions from the business world. (I'm fairly sure that courses at employment centers have you learn to sign your name properly, but I could be wrong; they teach you just about everything else you need, though, so I imagine they do.)
A signature doesn't have to look particularly pretty (which is good, because mine doesn't), but if it's printed (or chicken scratch; ignore if medical doctor, lol), then it gives off the vibe that the person isn't educated; the basics of it was "print is for children, cursive is for adults"; doesn't really apply now (I only know a few people that write in cursive all the time), but these things take a while to disappear completely.
Either that or I'm just stuck in times I wasn't alive or was a young child during... Those teachings work for everything else though...
Cursive has been completely dropped from the curriculum where I live; can't say that no teachers introduce it, but it's not required. There was a big stink about it when it was finally cut, but it was being phased out for years (the whole 'teachers don't want to read children's handwriting' thing I mentioned earlier; we were only made to write in cursive for two years before they gave up).
Slightly (more/less) (on/off) topic:
I agree about learning to write kanji helping my English writing. I haven't done very much, but it has helped me proportion my letters better. I've even taken up the habit of writing the letter 't' with a different stroke order from '+' in order to make them look a bit different (when doing calculations, I curl the bottom of 't' anyway, because two pages of calculations beg for as much written clarity as possible). I thought it was weird the first time I read that stroke order (and direction) could affect the resulting character that much, but it seems normal now.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - eslang - 2015-12-15
Some adults whom I have come across don't even know they have dyslexia, color-blind or tone-deaf conditions. Also there are other conditions such as autism spectrum disorder, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, etc... which may impede a person's learning function and ability to interact with others on a daily basis.
Usually we are not able to tell them apart from the average mortals because their appearance is similar to normal human beings, except for down syndrome genetic disorder.
In some parts of Asia that I have been to, they have not heard of such condition and disorder but that doesn't mean it didn't exist among their people. However, a few of them seem to know about these condition, but they are ashamed of it and did not seek proper treatment, or they relate it to other supernatural/superstitious beliefs instead.
濱口瑛士『黒板に描けなかった夢』出版記念イベント
濱口瑛士（はまぐち・えいし）2002年東京都生まれ。
3歳頃から絵を描く。言語IQが133あり、物語を作ることも得意。いじめられて学校には不登校。
絵の才能が見込まれ、東大先端研と日本財団が行う【異才発掘プロジェクト ROCKET】に選ばれた。
発達障害者の独創的世界
He can speak and read in Japanese, but writing his own name @4:45 minute .....
自閉症スペクトラム障害
先天的ない脳の問題 明確な治療法はないとされる
When it comes to social skills, he will need specialists help and training to relate with daily, real-life condition.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - eslang - 2015-12-15
(2015-12-14, 9:54 pm)sholum Wrote: I asked my tutor about computer input before; she said that a lot of people use the kana input on those Japanese keyboards rather than using romaji input (and on her phone, she uses the default(?) Japanese keyboard on the iPhone). I had asked because I always thought that those keyboards looked really uncomfortable (considering you have four(?) rows of frequently used character keys).Most of the Japanese would use kana input for typing on mobile (swipe mode) and keyboard because it is way faster than romaji input method.
I found this question on touch typing:
http://oshiete.goo.ne.jp/qa/5650379.html
It seems like most people (based on this) prefer kana input for typing Japanese, but some people seem to like romaji input as well. Response 12 went into the pros and cons of both; it was interesting to read.
Example:
romaji input --> tomodachi (input 8 keys)
kana input ---> ともだち (input 4 keys)
I find that the Japanese who prefer romaji input on keyboard, probably due to the fact that they have not learn touch typing and/or their work do not require typing at all.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - SomeCallMeChris - 2015-12-15
I've looked into this before, and cursive writing has been dropped from almost all American schooling. Perhaps some few private schools or charter schools still teach it, but it's essentially non-existent in public schools (I won't say 'completely' because there could always be an exception somewhere). Not recently either, it has been removed from the majority of schools for long enough that most 20-somethings that I work with have trouble reading it even though my handwriting (at the risk of bragging) is quite good.
Also, of course, it has been removed almost entirely from English as a foreign language courses around the world, including in Japan.
Personally, I find it extremely useful - you can write neatly in cursive at least twice as fast as in print (assuming you can write neatly in cursive and print), which is why the writing style was developed at all. Printing everything is just much more time consuming.
Working as I do as a cook, I'm constantly labeling containers. Fortunately everyone I currently work with can read cursive and doesn't complain about me using it. It would be somewhat ridiculous, I think, to switch to label printers - everyone can keep a pen in their pocket, and rolls of labels are placed conveniently around the kitchen. Or if you have a permanent marker on you, you can just write directly on plastic wrap in many cases.
I don't know how small or cheap label printers might have gotten but I can't see how they can be smaller or cheaper than ball point pens, or even sharpie markers... and if they were, then surely the data entry interface would be too small to use quickly for inputting arbitrary strings.
Granted that it doesn't make much sense to handwrite a lot of things now - most correspondence, reports, essays, fiction, and so on, is all written on the computer. But there are still many times when labels, memos, and notes are simply easier to handwrite and will continue to be easier to handwrite until and unless maybe they put a printer inside our cell phones so we can just dictate what we want to write and choose a 'sticker' or 'note' option... I think there's some serious materials engineering that needs to be done before that's even remotely possible though.
FWIW, my handwriting was pretty terrible too before I studied kanji. I made a point of improving it and having done so found it increasingly annoying if I'm asked to handicap my writing efficiency by printing. My print almost always looks terrible as I try to match the speed of cursive, but of course if I slow down it can look okay... it's just ... sooooo slow.
(2015-12-15, 2:48 am)eslang Wrote: Example:This is a nitpick but ともだち requires 5 keys on kana-swipe input, a seperate press is needed for dakuten. I don't know if kana keyboards use a modifier key (5 presses but only 4 inputs) or a separate press for 5 individual inputs. Of course the point about efficiency still stands.
romaji input --> tomodachi (input 8 keys)
kana input ---> ともだち (input 4 keys)
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - eslang - 2015-12-15
(2015-12-15, 2:51 am)SomeCallMeChris Wrote: Working as I do as a cook, I'm constantly labeling containers.That's great to know that studying kanji has help in some ways to improve handwriting. I dislike print-labels, so I prefer to write my 年賀状 which I feel it has a personal touch
FWIW, my handwriting was pretty terrible too before I studied kanji. I made a point of improving it and having done so found it increasingly annoying if I'm asked to handicap my writing efficiency by printing. My print almost always looks terrible as I try to match the speed of cursive, but of course if I slow down it can look okay... it's just ... sooooo slow.
Off-topic: May I ask... are you a professional cook? Chef さん?
(2015-12-15, 2:51 am)SomeCallMeChris Wrote:For your case, I don't consider it nitpicking(2015-12-15, 2:48 am)eslang Wrote: Example:This is a nitpick but ともだち requires 5 keys on kana-swipe input, a seperate press is needed for dakuten. I don't know if kana keyboards use a modifier key (5 presses but only 4 inputs) or a separate press for 5 individual inputs. Of course the point about efficiency still stands.
romaji input --> tomodachi (input 8 keys)
kana input ---> ともだち (input 4 keys)
Hmm... let me see. How to explain it here.
Have you seen or use Japanese keyboard 親指シフト?
Aの文字の濁音
文字キーと、文字キーを打つ手とは反対側の親指シフトキーとを同時に打鍵
（濁音がある文字のキーのみ有効）（クロスシフト+同時打鍵）
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%A6%AA%E6%8C%87%E3%82%B7%E3%83%95%E3%83%88
Yes, by using a modifier key (5 presses but only 4 inputs)
For mobile, most users require 5 keys on kana-swipe input unless they know how to program it with short-cut keys.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - Dudeist - 2015-12-15
I read an article in a Canadian newspaper recently, I don't remember which one though, which said that autographs of hockey players have gone down hill. They used to be quite readable even from those with limited educations and often quite nice. The current crop of players have signatures which are utterly not recognizable as their names. When I sign my name I tend towards that also. Seems to have been going downhill for a while.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - s0apgun - 2015-12-15
5 keys and only one hand is the real benefit. I am so glad I switched to using swipe. It took some time to get used to but its totally worth it. I use the app Simeji on iPhone and I love it.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - sholum - 2015-12-15
(2015-12-15, 2:48 am)eslang Wrote: Most of the Japanese would use kana input for typing on mobile (swipe mode) and keyboard because it is way faster than romaji input method.Just going by that link, the reasons cited agree with you on the benefits of kana input, but most people that mentioned using romaji input referenced programming (which would, of course, be an absolute pain to do if you switched to kana input every time you wanted to make a comment). I haven't looked further, so I really don't what other reasons people use romaji input. It was postulated that people who were just learning to touch type might use romaji input because there's less keys to memorize, but that person thought that it was a poor reason.
Example:
romaji input --> tomodachi (input 8 keys)
kana input ---> ともだち (input 4 keys)
I find that the Japanese who prefer romaji input on keyboard, probably due to the fact that they have not learn touch typing and/or their work do not require typing at all.
I'd think hunt-and-peck would be a lot more difficult with romaji input though...
I never did see anyone mention comfort as a factor (just the idea of kana input makes my hands hurt, though I haven't bought one to be sure), but then again, that might have been in the post that mentioned different keyboard layouts (DVORAK and such), and my eyes glazed right over that.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - SomeCallMeChris - 2015-12-15
(2015-12-15, 3:43 am)eslang Wrote: Off-topic: May I ask... are you a professional cook? Chef さん?
...
Have you seen or use Japanese keyboard 親指シフト?
Aの文字の濁音
文字キーと、文字キーを打つ手とは反対側の親指シフトキーとを同時に打鍵
（濁音がある文字のキーのみ有効）（クロスシフト+同時打鍵）
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%A6%AA%E6%8C%87%E3%82%B7%E3%83%95%E3%83%88
Yes, by using a modifier key (5 presses but only 4 inputs)
For mobile, most users require 5 keys on kana-swipe input unless they know how to program it with short-cut keys.
Yes, I'm a professional cook at a country club. I understand the Japanese love golfing so maybe somehow I can manage a similar position in Japan someday? Hmmm.... or a hotel would be fine too. Ideally I'd love to work in (or even run) a restaurant that really plays up the western cuisine theme both on the menu and in the decor. Not that there's anything wrong with Japanese cuisine, but it'd be pretty arrogant of me to try to out-do the Japanese at Japanese cooking...
I use swipe-kana on my phone but I've never used a Japanese keyboard. I've seen pictures and keyboard layout diagrams before I just didn't remember the details. It makes sense that they would use a shift-style key.
As far as typing being uncomfortable as sholum mentions - well, like I said, I haven't used them, but honestly, typing the number row on a conventional keyboard isn't that hard, and neither is the pinky-reach to the tilde or quote keys or so on. Before I realized I can't stand living in a cubicle I was a computer programmer, and I can touch-type the whole keyboard including the symbols in far off corners without any strain. I -do- have long fingers... but then again keyboards also come in different sizes so if you have small hands use a smaller keyboard and it should be fine.
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - john555 - 2015-12-15
The very first video from the original poster is interesting because it looks like the guys know their kanji better than the gals!
RE: [Video] Can Japanese Actually Write Japanese (Kanji)? - eslang - 2015-12-15
(2015-12-15, 4:00 am)s0apgun Wrote: 5 keys and only one hand is the real benefit. I am so glad I switched to using swipe. It took some time to get used to but its totally worth it. I use the app Simeji on iPhone and I love it.It may burn a small hole in the pockets, but really worth it.
Check this out!
ATOK Pad独自の「リボルバータッチ入力」
http://www.justsystems.com/jp/products/atokpad_iphone/
ATOK for iOSがついにインライン入力に対応！やっと普通に使えるぞ！ - YouTube