Core decks vs extensive reading

Core decks vs extensive reading - Printable Version

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RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - cracky - 2016-06-10

(2016-06-10, 12:22 am)sholum Wrote:
(2016-06-09, 10:36 pm)Mars Prism Makeup Wrote: If I want to play vns that are on the ps1 and ps2 is it possible to use things like visual novel reader? Or is that strictly for PC titles?

Exclusively PC. Most of the more popular VNs from the PS2 are available on the PC as well.

Works with ppsspp also but only a couple titles. I think you also need to use an older build of ppsspp,

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - CureDolly - 2016-06-10

@FlameseeK
Sorry I overlooked your last paragraph in my earlier reply

Quote:With very little work today by my standards (halfway through the second episode), I've added almost 50 words so far. Am I being to greedy? I can easily see this holding me back if I do this daily, which is why I was a little worried about srsing stuff while trying to get a lot of input in the first place.

I would say that is probably too much. People work differently but from what you have said so far I am thinking that for you it is too much. It would be too much for me too.

If you add 50 words a day your Anki will probably grow faster than you - or I - would want to deal with, since neither of us wants Anki taking over our Japanese immersion time. So yes, I would be a little more choosy about the words you enter.

You are very like me I think. Words are juicy. They are good! Let me just add that one too! The thing to remember is that it is never your last chance to capture a word.

Now the word-lover in us says "but what if it doesn't come up for ages"

But the pragmatic learner should reply "In that case you shouldn't be adding it right now, should you?"

And the word-lover says "But is such a lovely word"

And the pragmatic learner says "Urusai naa"

And on this occasion the pragmatic learner is right.

Of course you can indulge in a few especially juicy words in addition to the most sensible ones. But don't overfeed Anki. You will always get another chance at a word.

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - tokyostyle - 2016-06-10

(2016-06-09, 5:13 pm)cracky Wrote: VNR uses ITH for the text hooking. It's mostly just a lot of other shit piled on top.

VNR started with ITH but now has years of fixes and improvements that don't exist in ITH. Some of the stuff piled on top makes it much easier to launch games in their correct locales and trivializes hooking them properly. (I don't use the rest of the stuff like the crowd-sourced translations.)

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - RawrPk - 2016-06-10

@FlameseeK: If you must be picky with words from shirokuma, you can skip adding any words that relate to Panda's diet. He pretty much mentions how much he loves bamboo and bamboo grass/leaves in almost every episode. Actually, a lot of what he says in general is pretty repetitive (he's tired, he wants bamboo leaves, he calls himself cute, he wants to go on a diet, etc) though he has thrown some surprises in his dialog from time to time xD

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - sholum - 2016-06-10

(2016-06-10, 1:08 am)tokyostyle Wrote:
(2016-06-09, 5:13 pm)cracky Wrote: VNR uses ITH for the text hooking. It's mostly just a lot of other shit piled on top.

VNR started with ITH but now has years of fixes and improvements that don't exist in ITH. Some of the stuff piled on top makes it much easier to launch games in their correct locales and trivializes hooking them properly. (I don't use the rest of the stuff like the crowd-sourced translations.)

It's not difficult to launch games from the correct locale or to hook games in ITH? Unless you absolutely need another country's locale data for your normal use (why are you playing VNs on your work computer?), it's easier to just set your locale and non-Unicode settings to Japanese and be done with it. I can't count the threads I've seen over the years of people debugging AppLocale and similar tools, or just trying to set them up in the first place.

Is it possible to get rid of all the extra crap in VNR? I have absolutely no use for the auto translations, subtitles, locale emulator, or anything else, just the text hooker and output screen. I haven't run into any problems with ITH yet, but if I do, it'd be nice to have an upgrade available.

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - cracky - 2016-06-10

(2016-06-10, 2:06 am)sholum Wrote: Is it possible to get rid of all the extra crap in VNR? I have absolutely no use for the auto translations, subtitles, locale emulator, or anything else, just the text hooker and output screen. I haven't run into any problems with ITH yet, but if I do, it'd be nice to have an upgrade available.

Yes it is. The way it tries to hide everything all the time is still annoying though. It's cool it's being developed though, don't get me wrong.

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - FlameseeK - 2016-06-10

So, apparently there's more than one tool to read visual novels. I haven't tried any of them yet (about to do that), but it'd be nice to know what you guys think about them in general to help me weigh the pros and cons of each option properly.

The latest thing seems to be this program called VNR, but I've also found a different approach. The alternative presented in the video is most likely more complicated than VNR, but the fact that it makes use of rikaisama is great in that I can make flashcards efforlessly without having to interrupt my reading experience. Can you make cards like that with VNR?

On the other hand, it seems like VNR doesn't require you to read the visual novel in windowed mode, which is a great thing. Or at least that's what I thought when I saw the screenshots. But some people here said there are perhaps more features than ideal, so I wonder what the downsides are.

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - cracky - 2016-06-10

(2016-06-10, 8:11 pm)FlameseeK Wrote: The latest thing seems to be this program called VNR, but I've also found a different approach. The alternative presented in the video is most likely more complicated than VNR, but the fact that it makes use of rikaisama is great in that I can make flashcards efforlessly without having to interrupt my reading experience. Can you make cards like that with VNR?

VNR will still copy the stuff to your clipboard so you can still use whatever other programs you want with it. It is still being developed so it's probably the better option. Nothing really wrong with just using ITH either though.

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - Vempele - 2016-06-11

(2016-06-10, 8:11 pm)FlameseeK Wrote: On the other hand, it seems like VNR doesn't require you to read the visual novel in windowed mode, which is a great thing.

There's devOSD for a transparent overlay with Translation Aggregator as well.

(2016-06-10, 8:11 pm)FlameseeK Wrote: Or at least that's what I thought when I saw the screenshots. But some people here said there are perhaps more features than ideal, so I wonder what the downsides are.

I just used VNR for the furigana (I recall its furiganizer being somewhat more accurate than MeCab). AGTH+TA was better when I was starting out and needed to look up almost every word (eyes-only dictionary lookups!), but in the end the 研究社和英大辞典 is just a far superior dictionary (with entries far too large for anything but a dedicated window).

Haven't used a text hooker since 2013. No idea about the state of the art.

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - yukamina - 2016-06-11

I just tried out VNR and just wanted to add that if you disable furigana, the popup dictionary function goes away. So you have to keep the furigana on, but you can disable text-to-speech, grammar notes, translations, translated subtitles, and you don't need to use AppLocale. The game I tried won't run from the springboard (perhaps because I didn't install the AppLocale, I already had a separate location emulator), but I can just run the game from the file location while VNR is open and it will work.

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - Mars Prism Makeup - 2016-06-11

(2016-06-10, 12:22 am)sholum Wrote:
(2016-06-09, 10:36 pm)Mars Prism Makeup Wrote: If I want to play vns that are on the ps1 and ps2 is it possible to use things like visual novel reader? Or is that strictly for PC titles?

Exclusively PC. Most of the more popular VNs from the PS2 are available on the PC as well.

Really? Which of the more popular ones are on PC as well?

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - FlameseeK - 2016-06-11

(2016-06-11, 1:21 pm)Mars Prism Makeup Wrote:
(2016-06-10, 12:22 am)sholum Wrote:
(2016-06-09, 10:36 pm)Mars Prism Makeup Wrote: If I want to play vns that are on the ps1 and ps2 is it possible to use things like visual novel reader? Or is that strictly for PC titles?

Exclusively PC. Most of the more popular VNs from the PS2 are available on the PC as well.

Really? Which of the more popular ones are on PC as well?

You can look it up on vndb.

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - EratiK - 2016-06-11

You can also use an emulator.

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - FlameseeK - 2016-06-11

Been trying to set up a more immersion friendly environment, but ended up having a few issues.

Main issue: With the aid of VNR and ITH (whenever VNR doesn't work properly), I've managed to get the visual novel text to show up on a blank like this guy. I think this will be very helpful in order to make flashcards quickly while not breaking the flow of reading.

However, there's a pretty random issue that I don't know how to deal with - keeping the scroll bar always at the bottom. That is to say, sometimes the text is copied to the page, but I need to scroll down myself (major pain in the ass). I say random because I don't know exactly what triggers it. Usually, the scroll bar stays at the bottom until it decides to chill in the same position instead of showing me the following lines. When that happens, I have to either refresh the page or scroll down every single time I get new text in the vn. Any ideas what I could do to solve this issue?

(The person in the video doesn't have this issue and there's nothing in his "guide" explaining how to avoid this either. I'm not sure why my browser doesn't work quite like that.)

Minor issue: Thise is pretty specific, so I'm not sure if anyone will be able to help me solve it, but I guess it doesn't hurt to ask.

I was planning to read Planetarian before the anime adaptation comes out next month, but VNR doesn't work at all. ITH did get some text, but there's a glaring issue - it ignores the vast majority of hiragana characters (1-2 might slip through once in a blue moon). As for kanji and katakana, I didn't notice any missing characters. This didn't happen with any of the other visual novels I have here.

Aside from that, I was wondering if there's there any way I can to make anime subs show up on my broswer as well. I tried using ITH (lol), but it crashed immediately. I don't really expect a positive answer, but then again a while ago I didn't think you could use Rikaisama to read visual novels, so who knows?

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - sholum - 2016-06-11

For the text problem, try a different option in the drop down menu of ITH. If none of those work, you might have to search for a hook code that works on that engine. Normally the former will work. I'd show images, but I'm away at the moment.

For the other problems, I don't know. I've never had that scrolling problem, and I've never tried to use it with subtitles (something tells me that any potential fix, assuming one exists, will be far more difficult than just opening the subtitle file in a text editor).

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - FlameseeK - 2016-06-11

I've already tried the drop down menu thing, but unfortunately it didn't work. While I was able to find a page with several hook codes, Planetarian was nowhere to be seen. I'm probably just a really unlucky guy to have that happen to the very first vn I've decided to read, which also happens to be a top priority at the moment since the anime will be coming out in a couple of weeks.

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - RawrPk - 2016-06-11

(2016-06-11, 10:18 pm)FlameseeK Wrote: Aside from that, I was wondering if there's there any way I can to make anime subs show up on my broswer as well. I tried using ITH (lol), but it crashed immediately. I don't really expect a positive answer, but then again a while ago I didn't think you could use Rikaisama to read visual novels, so who knows?

Can't answer your major problem with VNs as I don't read them, I can help with the anime subs showing up on your browser. You can do so with balloonguy's tools dubbed by nest0r as "kage shibari". I wrote a guide in my blog.

With the program you can not only read the subs and use Rikai, but it is interactive in that when you click a random line, it will play the audio of that timed line. This is IF the subs are timed correctly with the video so before making the audio version of it, check to make sure the subs sync.

This is what I like to use instead of watching shows with subs. I tend to watch shows raw and then only look at the subs during sub2srs (dramas only) and kage shibari (dramas, anime).

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - SomeCallMeChris - 2016-06-11

(2016-06-11, 11:02 pm)FlameseeK Wrote: I've already tried the drop down menu thing, but unfortunately it didn't work. While I was able to find a page with several hook codes, Planetarian was nowhere to be seen. I'm probably just a really unlucky guy to have that happen to the very first vn I've decided to read, which also happens to be a top priority at the moment since the anime will be coming out in a couple of weeks.

Hmm, I've really got to finish Planetarian too then. I started it but stopped for technical issues that have since been resolved (hint: If you upgrade to windows 10, it is required that you install the Japanese language pack to play Planetarian. Having fonts, IME, and Japanese locale works for almost everything else but there's some magic in the language pack that makes Planetarian work. Plus if you install the language pack you can just make windows be in Japanese period, for what it's worth. Nice immersion I guess.)

No promises for any good result, but I might try the text-hooking programs on it. I'm sure there's plenty of vocab in it that I'd like to grab anyway.

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - FlameseeK - 2016-06-12

@RawPK
That sounds like a great way to save time if it's not too complicated. I'll give it a try soon. Thanks for letting me know!

@SomeCallMeChris
Not sure if I get it. When you say it works, are you talking about text-hooking? Because you said you were going to try text-hooking programs at the end. Do you mean it just didn't run properly before? The game itself runs just fine here, it's really just a text-hooking issue.

I still need to upgrade to win 10 (currently using the 8.1 version), but I've been holding back to avoid any possible issues that might come as a result of that. I may already have that language pack you're talking about though. Not sure.

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - RawrPk - 2016-06-12

Using the tool is a pretty quick process. Only time consuming part is making an audio file of your video (anime/drama/whatever) and maybe fixing the sub times if it didn't sync with the video when trying to watch it but this doesn't happen often.

The example I did in my blog with the drama BORDER took less than 10 minutes. It could have been more if the sub times were not in sync but they were perfect so all I had to do was load everything up without any editing.

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - FlameseeK - 2016-06-12

(2016-06-12, 11:51 am)RawrPk Wrote: Using the tool is a pretty quick process. Only time consuming part is making an audio file of your video (anime/drama/whatever) and maybe fixing the sub times if it didn't sync with the video when trying to watch it but this doesn't happen often.

The example I did in my blog with the drama BORDER took less than 10 minutes. It could have been more if the sub times were not in sync but they were perfect so all I had to do was load everything up without any editing.

Can you actually skip the whole audio thing? It's all about saving time for me at this point, so any new approach has to make the process significantly faster than looking words up myself a couple of times to be worth it. That is to say, including the time it takes to set the whole thing up.

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - RawrPk - 2016-06-12

If you just to be able to view the subs on the browser? Yes. It takes like 2 seconds. Just select the desired sub file (or paste in subs) and it should load up instantly.

[EDIT] Initial setup of the stuff to run the program takes about 10 minutes (the making of an audio file, double checking to see if subs sync with the video). But once they are done, you can load up those same files in about a minute or less.

The program is great for both listening and shadowing. It's like an interactive audiobook that you make yourself!

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - Roketzu - 2016-06-12

(2016-06-12, 3:12 pm)RawrPk Wrote: If you just to be able to view the subs on the browser? Yes. It takes like 2 seconds. Just select the desired sub file (or paste in subs) and it should load up instantly.

[EDIT] Initial setup of the stuff to run the program takes about 10 minutes (the making of an audio file, double checking to see if subs sync with the video). But once they are done, you can load up those same files in about a minute or less.

The program is great for both listening and shadowing. It's like an interactive audiobook that you make yourself!

I tried this on both Firefox and Chrome, and while it works with Chrome I get:

Error Code 4: MEDIA_ERR_SRC_NOT_SUPPORTED
This media type or this location is not supported by your browser

...with Firefox. It's just a .mp3 file so I've no idea why there's an issue. Chrome can even play the .mkv version of the file just fine.

Also, do you know if this requires .srt subtitles, or does it also work with .ass and others? (edit: I just tried loading a .ass file and while the subtitles show on the left, clicking them doesn't seek to anywhere in the loaded file.)

Oh, and do you know a good place to find Japanese subs that are actually timed correctly already? Kitsunekko has a ton of subs but pretty much none of them are properly timed to any of the media I find.

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - RawrPk - 2016-06-12

Ehh sorry about that. I had forgotten one important step which is only for Firefox. I updated my blog about that step but basically for your audio path it should be " file:///PATH " without the quotation marks. Firefox makes you work for it I guess Tongue

So besides changing the slash direction from C:\ to C:/ in your path, add the file:/// before it. Gomen for the confusion.

As for subtitiles, I noticed the timing is pretty bad in Kitsunekko. I recently had to edit the times for ep1 of shirokuma cafe. If you're interested in Drama, I found that d-addicts subs are usually timed well. I never had to edit timings of drama subs from there.

Hope this helps and again sorry for not adding that last part but it's in my blog post now!

EDIT: I didn't know about the .mkv files! That's cool. I never actually tried to use other files outside of what was listed in the blog post I read it from. Tbh I made my post because I had trouble reading the original blog where I found the tool and method from. Thanks for pointing that out! Smile

EDIT2: I just saw your question in regards to .ass files. I just tried it myself and it doesn't seem to work. You can always convert using https://lab.sorz.org/tools/asstosrt/?lang=en

When you click the "Concert & Download" button, it will take you to a new page. Just right click and choose "Save as.." and it should allow you to download the .srt file that way. I just converted the .ass to .srt file and it it seems to work again with the .srt file.

RE: Core decks vs extensive reading - Roketzu - 2016-06-12

(2016-06-12, 6:20 pm)RawrPk Wrote: Ehh sorry about that. I had forgotten one important step which is only for Firefox. I updated my blog about that step but basically for your audio path it should be " file:///PATH " without the quotation marks. Firefox makes you work for it I guess So besides changing the slash direction from C:\ to C:/ in your path, add the file:/// before it. Gomen for the confusion.

As for subtitiles, I noticed the timing is pretty bad in Kitsunekko. I recently had to edit the times for ep1 of shirokuma cafe. If you're interested in Drama, I found that d-addicts subs are usually timed well. I never had to edit timings of drama subs from there.

Hope this helps and again sorry for not adding that last part but it's in my blog post now!

EDIT: I didn't know about the .mkv files! That's cool. I never actually tried to use other files outside of what was listed in the blog post I read it from. Tbh I made my post because I had trouble reading the original blog where I found the tool and method from. Thanks for pointing that out!

While I like the idea of this whole thing, I'm having trouble seeing how much better it is to do this as opposed to just using Potplayer with its built in subtitle functionality, which largely covers everything this method does.

[Image: nFh0SYs.jpg]

Just like with the .html file, you can pull up the subtitle browser and click to go to specific lines and hear them repeatedly. You can even adjust subtitle timings right there through the same interface. The main benefit of using the browser player is you have all your subtitles there in text form so they are easier to work with when/if you need to, but this also can be replicated to some extent with Potplayer. Like you see in the picture, you can set up a key-bind to copy the current subtitle to your clipboard, so it's just a matter of pasting it into a browser. I suppose you could also JGlossator it with that program monitoring your clipboard. Then there are clipboard managers that will save a history of all your clippings if you want to keep moving through the episode and come back to that stuff later.

I can see the browser player working better for someone who is needing to check a lot of the lines, but for people who only come across a few new words/phrases per episode then I think Potplayer would be easier to work with. It also has the benefit of having a ton of other functionality. Speaking of which, I'm thinking of contacting the developers of it and asking if they might consider adding the ability to simply right click on a specific subtitle in the subtitle browser and extract that as a .mp3 or something. That'd be sweet.