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China's Ghost Cities and Malls - ファブリス - 2011-03-30
Short documentary by SBS Dateline (Australian TV) about the Chinese real estate market.
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - IceCream - 2011-03-30
wow... just... wow. Thanks for posting that, i had no idea! Really interesting!!!
btw, they talk about the "bubble bursting". What happens then? Who are impoverished if nobody buys the properties? Because, even if the bubble didn't burst, the lack of affordable housing will create slums for the average person anyway no?
i'm confused... where are the goverment getting the money to build this stuff in the first place? Wouldn't it be more efficient to let people move in for free so they can get the economy in the towns running and then pay rent or mortgage later?
And... if they're going to spend so much money on this kinda stuff, why don't they build stuff that looks nice?!?!
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - jettyke - 2011-03-30
IceCream Wrote:end so much money on this kinda stuff, why don't they build stuff that looks nice?!?!This is VERY true!
I don't understand this- it's as if beauty doesn't matter, only power and economical status does.
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - thurd - 2011-03-30
This is really fishy, government builds a city using cheap labor at very low cost (considering scale) and yet they charge 300k$ for a stupid apartment with no view and 10000 neighbors. Its obvious this is done on purpose but the problem is why?
One issue I see is if they'd charge 30k$ for a 70m flat I'd buy it even without setting my foot on China's ground and there would be millions of really rich people that would buy them in hundreds. This would mean selling your country for pebbles and still the situation wouldn't change for China's natives. I'm sure there are other scenarios and reasons why it happens but I do agree it doesn't look good
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - bodhisamaya - 2011-03-31
One of the greatest examples ever of a nation making true amends for wrongs done in the past. As many as 45 million died from starvation during the 'Great Leap Forward' under Mao Tse-Tung. The government has now built apartments to house all those ghost.
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - EratiK - 2011-03-31
What a waste... China could have been such a great country (well, if it wasn't a dictatorship). It's not even at the top it's already in decline. I was looking forward to a Green China, caring for the well being of its inhabitants (isn't that what communist states are supposed to do?), but looks like I'll have to wait another 30 years...
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - nadiatims - 2011-03-31
maybe it's all deliberate. Hype up the market, get all the rich to invest in property which will then lose it's value rapidly and be available for the poor to buy cheaply after the bubble bursts?
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - politrix - 2011-03-31
EratiK Wrote:What a waste... China could have been such a great country (well, if it wasn't a dictatorship). It's not even at the top it's already in decline. I was looking forward to a Green China, caring for the well being of its inhabitants (isn't that what communist states are supposed to do?), but looks like I'll have to wait another 30 years...lol decline economically? Not so fast. They have a potential housing bubble, but the government is aware of it and is trying to pop it. All signs in China still point up. And you're behind the times if you think China is a communist dictatorship. A better description would probably be "mostly capitalist oligarchy".
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - nest0r - 2011-03-31
My impression of China is that it's still rather oppressed, and the government seems schizo. (Hence the capitalism?) The kneejerk anti-Japanese sentiment that I often see in the media is also disturbing. Also, many Chinese films almost inevitably seem to feature skewed propaganda in the plot, kung fu experts righteously overcoming the simple foreign devils. I definitely have to spend extra time sifting through my film selections when they're made in China rather than, say, HK.
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - kitakitsune - 2011-03-31
China is a single party dictatorship by any definition. And that party happens to declare the country to be communist... Kind of a strange pro-business communism in practice.
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - politrix - 2011-03-31
nest0r Wrote:My impression of China is that it's still rather oppressed, and the government seems schizo. (Hence the capitalism?)Oppressed politically? Definitely. Oppressed socially or personally? Not really. Aside from talking trash about the government, you can do pretty much anything you want in China.
Quote:The kneejerk anti-Japanese sentiment that I often see in the media is also disturbing. Also, many Chinese films almost inevitably seem to feature skewed propaganda in the plot, kung fu experts righteously overcoming the simple foreign devils. I definitely have to spend extra time sifting through my film selections when they're made in China rather than, say, HK.Yeah, I've seen some of the movies you're referring to and it's pretty extensive. I can understand it though. Sort of similar to Captain America actually lol. It's not really a whole different from the Nazi WWII movies that come out of Hollywood, but the Chinese seem to pump out a lot more of them.
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - nest0r - 2011-03-31
@politrix
Yeah, though I still love a good Chinese epic.
Also, Nazis are evil, especially the undead devil-worshipping Nazis that have been augmented by Science and wield strange occult artefacts.
I meant oppression in all its horrible nuance, but I just realized this thread's in the Hanzi subforum and would feel bad about dissing China and sparking discourse that really I've no business in, as I generally try to keep the topic of China at arm's length. We have an agreement. I appreciate many aspects of Chinese culture, and in return I don't obsess over the Great Firewall, etc.
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - vinniram - 2011-04-05
So much anti-Chinese sentiment. I frankly thing it is disturbing. The US government has a sh!tload of problems, it's just they have a way of masking it all up in propaganda where you don't think it's propaganda, you think it's freedom of speech. That's the mass media for you...
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - ファブリス - 2011-04-05
Frankly I was surprised by the reactions to Understanding the rise of China (TED Talk).
Regardless of the wrongdoings of the state in China what I got out of that TED Talk is the need to try to understand China instead of projecting our own Western culture onto it.
With that said what the video here suggest to me is that China does not want to learn from our mistakes. Despite being chiefly "not the West" it seems they are trying to beat us at our own game of consumerism and careless exploitation of the environment.
So are we (us and them) that different in the end?
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - ropsta - 2011-04-05
vinniram Wrote:So much anti-Chinese sentiment. I frankly thing it is disturbing. Virtually all governments have a sh!tload of problems, it's just they have a way of masking it all up in propaganda where you don't think it's propaganda, you think it's freedom of speech... or somethng. That's the mass media for you...Just had to edit that for you. There are more than two countries in the world.
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - bodhisamaya - 2011-04-05
vinniram Wrote:So much anti-Chinese sentiment. I frankly thing it is disturbing. The US government has a sh!tload of problems, it's just they have a way of masking it all up in propaganda where you don't think it's propaganda, you think it's freedom of speech. That's the mass media for you...If what you say is true, I can pretty much guarantee you fame and fortune. Just start a pro-democracy publication in Shanghai detailing human rights violations committed by the ruling party. It is a can't-miss enterprise as you will have a virtual nation-wide monopoly. People are dying to have their voices heard, or at least the wording in Yahoo's China contract hinted at such.
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - zachandhobbes - 2011-04-05
Fabrice, interesting you should bring that up.
My mom is Taiwanese, so she has some Japanese and some Chinese culture. She knows a lot about Chinese and can speak Mandarin and used to live in Taiwan, so I ask her about these things sometimes.
I asked her about her thoughts on China's growing economic and military power - if they would ever one day exceed us in America and what they would do to us.
She told me they would probably do nothing. Something about a lack of imperialist desire, like back when America was more isolationist, China had no desire in large mass domination or expansion into other places that did not directly threaten them. They just wanted pride or something.
Anyway I thought it was interesting. A completely different mindset than in America, where we set the example and if you don't agree, we make you agree.
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - IceCream - 2011-04-06
I'm not sure how that could be true. China's borders always appear to be in question, as if they're not entirely sure where exactly they are. It's a big problem for many countries. Not only Tibet, but China recently took a big bite out of Bhutan. Not to mention certain disputed islands like the one they recently claimed was theirs and not Japans after that ship scandal thing...
Perhaps they are not so interested in countries they can't claim were always theirs right now, but isn't it the same kind of imperialist mindset that it comes from? (i don't think anyone can claim that tibet or bhutan were threatening them really)
nadiatims Wrote:maybe it's all deliberate. Hype up the market, get all the rich to invest in property which will then lose it's value rapidly and be available for the poor to buy cheaply after the bubble bursts?hahah interesting idea! it wouldn't be so bad if it was...
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - bodhisamaya - 2011-04-06
zachandhobbes Wrote:Something about a lack of imperialist desire, like back when America was more isolationist, China had no desire in large mass domination or expansion into other places that did not directly threaten them. They just wanted pride or something.Great! In the same way that America allows Puerto Rico to vote for independence, remain a territory or become a state, all of the areas taken by military force surrounding China should be expecting a vote on whether or not they want to remain occupied or not as well. Though, areas like Inner Mongolia that have been almost completely replaced by Chinese would probably remain.
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - kitakitsune - 2011-04-06
China will never allow 1,200,000 sq km of its conquered territory to vote itself independent.
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - vinniram - 2011-04-06
ropsta Wrote:I was drawing a comparison between the two most powerful countries in the world, if you didn't notice. Not to mention the fact that to me, the US seems to be the country which most vehemently criticizes China.vinniram Wrote:So much anti-Chinese sentiment. I frankly thing it is disturbing. Virtually all governments have a sh!tload of problems, it's just they have a way of masking it all up in propaganda where you don't think it's propaganda, you think it's freedom of speech... or somethng. That's the mass media for you...Just had to edit that for you. There are more than two countries in the world.
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - liosama - 2011-04-17
Oh yeah saw this on tv. I would love to go there and take some shots!
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - Zon70 - 2011-04-17
Well thats central banking and Keynesian economics 101 for you. But its not just China doing this, USA has been doing this for decades and more recently, so has Europe and well, pretty much every modern country is doing it too. No doubt this real estate bubble will pop in China, but there are tons of bubbles right now and once they pop its game over for the world economy. You think that china ghost mall is bad? Just wait a couple years(maybe even this year) and Beijing will look like detroit
China's Ghost Cities and Malls - hokaidogirl - 2011-04-18
OMG. It's a very nice documentary. I have not watched television lately so I haven't seen this. Thank you for posting.