Tobberoth Wrote:Actually, chances are very high that they won't care at all about the tones in China, my friends studying Mandarin in Beijing claims tones aren't part of the curriculum at all at the university he studies at. You will have to pronounce it correct though.

It's like with Japanese. Pitch is important, but no one actively studies that stuff.

EDIT: Thanks for the site btw, always nice with good material.

Tobberoth Wrote:Actually, chances are very high that they won't care at all about the tones in China, my friends studying Mandarin in Beijing claims tones aren't part of the curriculum at all at the university he studies at. You will have to pronounce it correct though.

It's like with Japanese. Pitch is important, but no one actively studies that stuff.

EDIT: Thanks for the site btw, always nice with good material.

activeaero Wrote:

Tobberoth Wrote:Actually, chances are very high that they won't care at all about the tones in China, my friends studying Mandarin in Beijing claims tones aren't part of the curriculum at all at the university he studies at. You will have to pronounce it correct though.

It's like with Japanese. Pitch is important, but no one actively studies that stuff.

EDIT: Thanks for the site btw, always nice with good material.

Funny because I was just reading this on another language forum. One of the guys that lived in China for about 4 years chimed in and said he never bothered learning the tones nor was it ever an issue with him being understood.

I know nothing about Mandarin but if that is the case why are tones considered the "hard" aspect of it? In my own mind I always thought "why don't you just pronounce the words they way they are pronounced?" but figured this was just some sort of ignorance on my part in regards to how tonal languages work.

activeaero Wrote:

Tobberoth Wrote:Actually, chances are very high that they won't care at all about the tones in China, my friends studying Mandarin in Beijing claims tones aren't part of the curriculum at all at the university he studies at. You will have to pronounce it correct though.

It's like with Japanese. Pitch is important, but no one actively studies that stuff.

EDIT: Thanks for the site btw, always nice with good material.

Funny because I was just reading this on another language forum. One of the guys that lived in China for about 4 years chimed in and said he never bothered learning the tones nor was it ever an issue with him being understood.

I know nothing about Mandarin but if that is the case why are tones considered the "hard" aspect of it? In my own mind I always thought "why don't you just pronounce the words they way they are pronounced?" but figured this was just some sort of ignorance on my part in regards to how tonal languages work.

Tobberoth Wrote:

activeaero Wrote:

Tobberoth Wrote:Actually, chances are very high that they won't care at all about the tones in China, my friends studying Mandarin in Beijing claims tones aren't part of the curriculum at all at the university he studies at. You will have to pronounce it correct though.

It's like with Japanese. Pitch is important, but no one actively studies that stuff.

EDIT: Thanks for the site btw, always nice with good material.

Funny because I was just reading this on another language forum. One of the guys that lived in China for about 4 years chimed in and said he never bothered learning the tones nor was it ever an issue with him being understood.

I know nothing about Mandarin but if that is the case why are tones considered the "hard" aspect of it? In my own mind I always thought "why don't you just pronounce the words they way they are pronounced?" but figured this was just some sort of ignorance on my part in regards to how tonal languages work.

Well, tones are sort of extra important since it's more or less impossible to understand what someone is saying if they aren't using the correct tones perfectly. I mean in Japanese, it doesn't matter if you use the wrong pitch when saying 猫, everyone will understand you're talking about a cat even if your pronunciation sucks. In Chinese, it becomes impossible to communicate.

However yes, I don't see the point in making such a big deal out of it. Focus on it a lot in the start, get it right, understand it. Then stop caring about it so much, it SHOULD become more or less second nature. It's just a language where pronunciation is more important than usual, I guess.

dbh2ppa Wrote:tones are just part of the syllables, it's how they are pronounced, kinda like vowels.. do you worry to get the right vowels in your syllables? not really, it's just part of what they are... か and け are two different sounds, the same way 媽(má) and 馬(mǎ) are two different sounds, not "the same sound with different tones".
so yes, tones are important, just don't think of them in terms of tones, only in terms of "how is this syllable pronounced"... not like you can't figure out which tone it is once you know how to pronounce it.

dbh2ppa Wrote:tones are just part of the syllables, it's how they are pronounced, kinda like vowels.. do you worry to get the right vowels in your syllables? not really, it's just part of what they are... か and け are two different sounds, the same way 媽(má) and 馬(mǎ) are two different sounds, not "the same sound with different tones".
so yes, tones are important, just don't think of them in terms of tones, only in terms of "how is this syllable pronounced"... not like you can't figure out which tone it is once you know how to pronounce it.

activeaero Wrote:

dbh2ppa Wrote:tones are just part of the syllables, it's how they are pronounced, kinda like vowels.. do you worry to get the right vowels in your syllables? not really, it's just part of what they are... か and け are two different sounds, the same way 媽(má) and 馬(mǎ) are two different sounds, not "the same sound with different tones".
so yes, tones are important, just don't think of them in terms of tones, only in terms of "how is this syllable pronounced"... not like you can't figure out which tone it is once you know how to pronounce it.

Ok that is exactly how I've always thought of it. So I assume the difficulty really just stems from the fact that Mandarin has a large number of sounds?

HerrPetersen Wrote:I am watching the CCTV channels linked to in the first post right now. They are all working fine except for the 730k-ones? My player says "stream does not exist" anyone else having trouble?

Yonosa Wrote:Dude... tones piss me off, I think it is the most retarded way of describing the chinese language. It gives you too much to think about and just sucks suck sucks suck sucks suck sucks!!

How about this, forget the tones! tone 1 2 3 and 4 and the "neutral" tone, dude thinking about that stupid sh!7 is just going to frustrate us! The way I did it is I actively don't think about tones but just hear the way things are spoken, although I am memorizing tones through drilling vocabulary(i do sentences too of course) because undoubtedly when i take classes in China they'll make me rememember what character has what tones. But when it comes to reading, each character simply has a sound, and yea that sound has a specific pitch, but I just think about actual way it is sounds, instead of knowing the tone and trying to say things at the correct "tone" that never works. People will just say your tone is not correct, but if when I started to just worry about the sound of each character individually I was told my pronunciation was better, imitation I guess over inventing my own idea of these "tones". I have a passive knowledge of the tones for testing purposes in China(aug 20th it begins!), but forget trying to apply that you know the tone for words in my opinion, just say it how you heard it.
I don't even think that makes sense, but it has really helped me to pick things out in Chinese, and it pronunciation is a lot better already, and I'm just 2 weeks in to my Half day Chinese immersion environment.


SUMMARY: I just say the word how I've heard it, then if I want to show someone I know the reading and tone on paper then I did it out of my head, I found that before I looked at the character and thought about the tone, then said what was an incorrect representation of the pronunciation. Works better for me anyways.

Also, I don't know if you guys know about this, but I have this stuff running 24.7.
http://watch.squidtv.net/asia/china.html
Nothing like some state TV! Site has tv from many places though,
dl/use GOM tho it tends to be compatible with more of the streams than WMP

Want to add one thing, I can't believe it but I highly prefer on an overall basis CHinese TV to Japanese TV, censuring and all, I can't take a single more yokkata, I swear, a single more sugoi, a single more fake laugh... Japanese TV sucks, Probably has something to do with the fact that I am only exposed to major networks on the Japanese side but with Chinese I have that big list and there are plenty of learning and science focused channels, and I love all the nationalistic documentaries about Chinese history... I am always like OOUU! and AAAHH when I have the Chinese stuff playing, but when my Japanese stuff is going, I find myself breaking my face into the wall at the violent bleeding in my ears that was painfully induced by the horrid screech of the Japanese sirens yokkatas and sugois, I guess it's just because I can't get any sciency/historyeey stuff as far as live Japanese TV, I bet I would froth at the mouth in a positive but violent way, if I were exposed to the glory of a Japanese Science network.

nadiatims Wrote:I think his point was not to specifically learn the tones seperately from everything else, but rather allow it to come naturally through imitation of words.

Yonosa Wrote:I don't even think that makes sense, but it has really helped me to pick things out in Chinese, and it pronunciation is a lot better already

stehr Wrote:To really get good at tones you have to focus on the combination of tones as opposed to single tones. Practice going from 1->3, 2->1, 3->4, etc. When you've mastered all possible transitions then it will gradually become second nature. I agree that listening practice helps, but making a conscious effort will speed your progress considerably.