Is there such a learning tool as this?

Is there such a learning tool as this? - Printable Version

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Is there such a learning tool as this? - john555 - 2015-10-11

I was thinking of this the other day.

It would be really helpful I think for learners of Japanese if somebody published special, kana-only (or [gasp] romaji-only) versions of sophisticated literature (like e.g., the Japanese translations of Wuthering Heights, Treasure Island, etc.).

This could be helpful to increase vocabulary (at least phonetically) through reading.

OR, as an alternative, the same types of literary works but totally glossed with furigana (though I hate furigana).

I'm looking for ready-made books (I don't feel like copying and pasting blocks of text and converting it myself).

If there is such a thing please post the link! Thanks.

Is there such a learning tool as this? - James736 - 2015-10-11

Reading novels entirely in kana would be torture.

Is there such a learning tool as this? - Zarxrax - 2015-10-11

You can go play pokemon. It's not exactly sophisticated, but if you want kana, there you go.

Is there such a learning tool as this? - Bokusenou - 2015-10-11

http://aoitori.kodansha.co.jp/search/genre.html?genre=%E4%B8%96%E7%95%8C%E3%81%AE%E5%90%8D%E4%BD%9C
There's a link to children's versions of non-Japanese classic lit & childrens' lit. There's Sherlock Holmes, Tom Sawyer, Pippi Longstocking, Wizard of Oz, Alice in Wonderland, Aladdin, Greek Myths & more, with lots of furigana, and you can click on ためし読みする next to each book to read a sample.
These books are pretty much the closest thing I know of to what you're searching for.

Is there such a learning tool as this? - NickT - 2015-10-11

I have a version of 'Murder on the Orient Express' in Japanese fully glossed with hiragana over every kanji. The ISBN is 4061485113, if you google that you can find it in many different stores.

I also have a similar book which is a collection of native Japanese classics, such as the short story くもの糸 and so on, also fully glossed. The ISBN is 9784061487987.

I have mixed feelings about furigana, but I agree with the previous posters that reading a full novel of kana (or romaji) would be pretty horrendous.

Is there such a learning tool as this? - zodiac - 2015-10-11

@john555 - sent you a PM!

Is there such a learning tool as this? - cracky - 2015-10-11

john555 Wrote:It would be really helpful I think for learners of Japanese if somebody published special, kana-only (or [gasp] romaji-only) versions of sophisticated literature (like e.g., the Japanese translations of Wuthering Heights, Treasure Island, etc.).

This sounds like the farthest thing from native/natural Japanese that could possibly exist.

EDIT: On topic, just read stuff for kids.

Is there such a learning tool as this? - RandomQuotes - 2015-10-11

Treasure Island is in no way sophisticated literature.

On topic: There are furigana-ized versions of classic Japanese stories floating around, but they are aimed at children so they are often going to have the gaudy manga style covers. 青鳥 and 角川 are the two publishers you want to look at.

Is there such a learning tool as this? - yudantaiteki - 2015-10-12

cracky Wrote:
john555 Wrote:It would be really helpful I think for learners of Japanese if somebody published special, kana-only (or [gasp] romaji-only) versions of sophisticated literature (like e.g., the Japanese translations of Wuthering Heights, Treasure Island, etc.).
This sounds like the farthest thing from native/natural Japanese that could possibly exist.

If it's romanized/kana versions of Japanese literature, then it would be both native and natural Japanese.

(I do wonder why john wants translations of Western literature rather than examples of native Japanese literature.)

Is there such a learning tool as this? - john555 - 2015-10-12

RandomQuotes Wrote:Treasure Island is in no way sophisticated literature.

I know what you mean. I think I meant that the language in Treasure Island is "flowery" and has "lots of vocabulary."

Is there such a learning tool as this? - john555 - 2015-10-12

yudantaiteki Wrote:
cracky Wrote:
john555 Wrote:It would be really helpful I think for learners of Japanese if somebody published special, kana-only (or [gasp] romaji-only) versions of sophisticated literature (like e.g., the Japanese translations of Wuthering Heights, Treasure Island, etc.).
This sounds like the farthest thing from native/natural Japanese that could possibly exist.
If it's romanized/kana versions of Japanese literature, then it would be both native and natural Japanese.

(I do wonder why john wants translations of Western literature rather than examples of native Japanese literature.)

Just as a break, for something easier. I figure if I read a Japanese translation of something I'm familiar with already it will be easier and also help with vocabulary acquisition.

For instance, I once read a modern Greek translation of Jules Verne's Around The World In 80 Days which was not only fun but really helpful in learning to read Greek. (Actually I think it was originally written in French).

Is there such a learning tool as this? - Zgarbas - 2015-10-12

Copy a normal Japanese text
Go to google translate. Set to Japanese > Japanese.
Paste text in left box and translate.
You'll have kana in the right box and romaji beneath it.

I doubt anyone would make a resource as silly as a romaji-only book, but this comes close to what you're asking for.

Is there such a learning tool as this? - john555 - 2015-10-12

Zgarbas Wrote:Copy a normal Japanese text
Go to google translate. Set to Japanese > Japanese.
Paste text in left box and translate.
You'll have kana in the right box and romaji beneath it.

I doubt anyone would make a resource as silly as a romaji-only book, but this comes close to what you're asking for.

Kindly READ my posts carefully before responding. (1) I said I wanted a ready made book, and did not want to do copying and pasting on the internet. (2) I said I would also consider a book where every kanji is glossed with furigana.
(3) I explained clearly the value of such a resource.

Is there such a learning tool as this? - Flamerokz - 2015-10-12

john555 Wrote:Kindly READ my posts carefully before responding.

I feel like you would benefit from this advice.

Is there such a learning tool as this? - bertoni - 2015-10-12

The problem with getting books like that printed is the limited demand. With on-demand printing, the cost might be more reasonable, but someone still needs to prepare the text. Any reasonably current novel would need copyright agreements, too, and translations can have the same issue.

I agree that hiragana-only texts would be unpleasant, but maybe that's less training to overcome than I think it'd be.

Is there such a learning tool as this? - jcdietz03 - 2015-10-13

If you have a plaintext of your book, one of cb4960's tools will do what you need... I think. I don't think you can get ready-made books like that. Some mangas have full furigana, but that's not "classic books."

Plaintexts of some older classic books are available for free. http://www.japannewbie.com/2011/02/13/how-to-use-aozora-bunko-to-get-free-japanese-books/
There's some threads on here about aozora bunko. Search aozora.

For some reason, native speakers don't have trouble with kana-only texts. Kana-only text is most prevalent in older videogames, which were limited by memory and processing power. The Legend of Zelda (NES) and Final Fantasy (NES) are classic examples.

Is there such a learning tool as this? - gdaxeman - 2015-10-13

jcdietz03 Wrote:For some reason, native speakers don't have trouble with kana-only texts. Kana-only text is most prevalent in older videogames, which were limited by memory and processing power. The Legend of Zelda (NES) and Final Fantasy (NES) are classic examples.

Maybe they don't have much trouble with text in kana, if they're familiar with the subject being treated, because they have learned their language primarily by listening and have a strong feeling about how it has to flow, and what words can be used in what context. When they speak it's like they're speaking kana, not kanji – the difference is that pitch accent and intonation is not conveyed in writing, only when speaking.

Is there such a learning tool as this? - cracky - 2015-10-13

jcdietz03 Wrote:For some reason, native speakers don't have trouble with kana-only texts. Kana-only text is most prevalent in older videogames, which were limited by memory and processing power. The Legend of Zelda (NES) and Final Fantasy (NES) are classic examples.

You have to do what you have to do. If they were comparable ease though I don't see why that changed. You can still find games with all kana but they're aimed at younger children and include spaces usually.

Is there such a learning tool as this? - sholum - 2015-10-13

jcdietz03 Wrote:Kana-only text is most prevalent in older videogames, which were limited by memory and processing power. The Legend of Zelda (NES) and Final Fantasy (NES) are classic examples.

Memory and readability, really. The memory available for fonts limited both the number of characters they could fit in the ROM and the resolution of the characters. Even GBA games can be a nightmare to read, for those where the developers decided that more kanji were necessary for the script (when the character starts to look like a foreground block with some accidental transparent pixels, I start thinking that the word should have been written in kana...)
Even Pokemon games have a kanji option now. While it's only there because the memory is available, I still haven't figured out if it's included as a way to improve children's kanji reading or because older kids (and adults) prefer having the kanji (for one reason or another, since there's still spaces, iirc). I really need to ask some people at some point...

@OP
I really don't think these exist in print. Kana only texts are limited to new-readers level books (and braille? can't remember); even the children's books I have use kanji (albeit either few or with copious furigana). Romaji only texts... have absolutely no market, so I'd be really, really surprised if they exist, outside of parallel texts or other similar learning material.
If you're specifically looking for high kana translations of texts in the Western canon, you might could search for old literature books for junior-highschool; I imagine they'd gloss things under the assumption that the reader is half-illiterate like they do for our school books in the US...

Anyway, that's the closest thing I can think of for what you're looking for, beyond the (far easier) digital suggestions that have already been mentioned.

Is there such a learning tool as this? - vix86 - 2015-10-14

sholum Wrote:If you're specifically looking for high kana translations of texts in the Western canon, you might could search for old literature books for junior-highschool; I imagine they'd gloss things under the assumption that the reader is half-illiterate like they do for our school books in the US...

I think you'd be surprised. There is kind of an expectation that high schoolers at least, should be literate to a certain extent. So only the obscure words are going to have furigana.

Is there such a learning tool as this? - RawrPk - 2015-10-14

I'm surprised no one mentioned Harry Potter series. The entire series has been translated into Japanese and from what I read, has been glossed with furigana.

https://shop.pottermore.com/en_US/books/589/book-1-ja-jp

though these are ebooks from Pottermore

「ハリー・ポッターと賢者の石」Book 1 on Amazon. It's a physical book if you don't like ebooks

Is there such a learning tool as this? - john555 - 2015-10-15

Maybe I could send an email to the folks at Kodansha Corporation and suggest an all-romaji translation of War and Peace...what's that? They'd probably say no?

Is there such a learning tool as this? - john555 - 2015-10-15

RawrPk Wrote:I'm surprised no one mentioned Harry Potter series. The entire series has been translated into Japanese and from what I read, has been glossed with furigana.

https://shop.pottermore.com/en_US/books/589/book-1-ja-jp

though these are ebooks from Pottermore

「ハリー・ポッターと賢者の石」Book 1 on Amazon. It's a physical book if you don't like ebooks

Thanks for this...I may go and buy Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone.

I hope the font is larger than normal...I was looking through Japanese books at the public library and they all use the same tiny font.

Is there such a learning tool as this? - RandomQuotes - 2015-10-15

If you have a fair bit of money, why not just commission a romaji translation yourself. It'll be expensive, but that's the only way I see you getting what you want.

Is there such a learning tool as this? - Roketzu - 2015-10-15

Are you at a point where you know enough vocabulary that reading a book in kana won't be too much of a challenge, but yet aren't comfortable enough with kanji to just use normal books? I never found myself in this position at any point, kanji has only ever served as an aid to my reading, it was the constant new vocabulary that was slowing me down. Even then it was the fact they were written in kanji that made them easy to look up immediately, which wouldn't have been the case if everything was kana.

Has anyone else ever been in the same position as John here? I'd be interested to know.