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+--- Thread: Starting RTK1. Questions, thoughts etc? (/thread-12995.html)
Starting RTK1. Questions, thoughts etc? - Dudeist - 2015-09-06
1: When writing the Kanji I often forget to do the little flourishes. For example
When doing Month I will forget to draw the left and right downward line with the slant to the left and when I do remember them I don't often do the squiggle on the right one
When doing chant, my three boxes [mouth day day]will be squares like in his stroke order writing and the mouth box won't be rectangular.
When doing day it looks like a box with a line through it, it seems a lot of depictions and the vertical lines extending slightly past the bottom horizontal line.
Also sometimes the size of my components will be the same width instead of slightly wider or narrower [except for 2 and 3, I got those nailed]
Is this some sort of horrible thing or is it more like how different people write cursive in English. If I ever find myself doing the JLPT will they take me out and beat me to death or worse fail me because of such slight things or even worse force me to spend time with Justin Beiber?
I've been finding it easier to remember the Kanji the way I write it, reduces the amount of "notes" but if it is a big deal I'll work on fine tuning things.
2: I go through the book and write things down, then the next day review from the book and start a new set then the next day I use custom study to add the character set into Anki as new cards and review the second set again etc etc.
I've upped the Anki learning period to 1 2 3 4 5 6 minutes but have been debating if I should learn from the book by writing 5 times or 10 times each [I also write when learning and reviewing with Anki]. 5 would save some time, 10 would solidify more. I've only done the first 2 lessons. I usually set things up so that once I am done with the 1st to 6 minute that it shows up the next day even if it seems easy. I didn't with some of the early ones and I regret it.
3: Is it better to go hard core and try to finish it quickly or take your time and let it absorb. I have another project on tap [French] so I could aim to do a lesson a day splitting the larger ones into 30ish Kanji groups or I could go gonads to the wall and aim for about 60 a day [writing them out 5 times instead of 10] doing the larger lessons by themselves and combining the smaller lessons. I am figuring on setting max review time to say 30 so that while I am finishing off the French the Kanji will stay fresh in mind and 70 odd review cards a day won't take that long anyway.
First 12 lessons I will go at 1 a day as I'm running the sample pdf to make sure I'll stick with it till I pony up for the book.
If anyone has any thoughts or advice [other than not bothering of course]
BTW I am loving the Anki and the Anki deck. Some of those stories work much better than the originals, like the pervy one for 9. I was lost otherwise and I am not very creative so making my own would be torture.
Also even though I am using custom study sessions to release the number of Kanji in a lesson [setting default new cards to 0 a day otherwise] I still feel the Anki calling. It sets up a bit of discipline.
Starting RTK1. Questions, thoughts etc? - Flamerokz - 2015-09-06
Regarding 1, JLPT is an entirely multiple choice test and certainly none of the questions will test you on the correctness of how the kanji is written. EDIT: Kanken on the other hand...
Starting RTK1. Questions, thoughts etc? - James736 - 2015-09-06
1: Two things. First, the "little flourishes" are not an optional part of how kanji are written. Stroke order, direction and shape are all important. Hooks (as in 力 and 刀) and slants (as in 月) in particular are extremely important. So are things like the difference between a square, like 口 and a rectangle, like 日, and whether a line goes all the way across, like 曰 vs 日. These are things you should pay careful attention to. Second, handwriting is important in Japan. If you're a beginner at writing kanji it's only natural that your writing isn't good; that's why you have to practice.
2: If your goal is to be able to write kanji from memory, then you need to practice writing. I disagree with Heisig's claim that once is enough. You need to write each kanji thousands of times to develop the kind of muscle memory and fine motor control needed to be able to write like a native, again, if that's your goal.
3: It's better to take your time, especially if you're working on another major project at the same time and you are an absolute beginner at kanji and Japanese.
Also, it's a major irritation of mine that Heisig calls it "drawing." It's not "drawing," it's writing.
Starting RTK1. Questions, thoughts etc? - Dudeist - 2015-09-06
Thanks for the responses.
Just out of curiosity are those Kanken exams available outside of Japan? I know I am getting way ahead of myself.
I don't remember the drawing term from the book. Of course my use of the term is incorrect so I apologize. I can see how he would call it that though
and I can also see how that could be annoying. I am aware that there is a difference between having the line go across vs not. That part I do.
However I notice that for example chant that the Kanji to the left have a rectangular "Mouth" but the stroke order illustration it is a square of sorts.
One thing I've noticed is that I've been doing sparkle and goods wrong, with 1 to the left and 2 to the right instead of 1 on top and 2 on the bottom. Opps. I guess I really should take more care in that.
I guess I should redouble my efforts on that. Time for review.
Is handwriting really that important in Japan though. From what I hear with typing and cell phones there is a big thing with Japanese people forgetting how to write. I've read similar things here. I do the writing because I figure it will help in remembering and because it is better to learn it now and forget it later than have to go back and grind it in after.
I do agree that saying once is enough is a bit nucking futs.
Starting RTK1. Questions, thoughts etc? - James736 - 2015-09-06
The left-hand primitive for "chant" is "mouth," which is square, but elements often get squashed slightly when they're on the left of a kanji, particularly in printing, and they sometimes change shape slightly too. In handwriting, though, it should be more square.
If you're having trouble remembering where the elements go (e.g.: 1 to the left and 2 to the right instead of 1 on top and 2 on the bottom), then change your story: a sun up in the sky shining on 2 suns below, or something like that.
And yes, despite the fact that email and texting are daily habits, handwriting really is that important in Japan. Resumes are written by hand. All kids study brush and ink calligraphy in school. Go to any bookstore and you'll see shelves of volumes on writing beautifully. People do forget how to write some of the less common kanji and may confuse some of the very similar looking ones (just as people forget the spellings of less common words), but anyone who went through 12 years of schooling in Japan should be able to write the jouyou kanji with no trouble, and part of the reason for that is constant practice. Another part of the reason is constant exposure through reading and just seeing them everywhere, but the writing aspect of brute force memorization, which is how Japanese kids learn kanji (by writing each one out out hundreds or thousands of times) is a big factor.
Starting RTK1. Questions, thoughts etc? - Dudeist - 2015-09-06
I think my main confusion about doing chant, sparkle and goods is that being sets of three introduced at the same time my mind just grouped them together.
Will take that suggestion though.
BTW does it get much harder? Looking ahead even in the sample pdf, the complexity does seem to go up. I guess I am wondering if by that time being somewhat used to them and having the building blocks it won't be nearly as bad as it looks now.
Starting RTK1. Questions, thoughts etc? - James736 - 2015-09-06
Dudeist Wrote:BTW does it get much harder? Looking ahead even in the sample pdf, the complexity does seem to go up. I guess I am wondering if by that time being somewhat used to them and having the building blocks it won't be nearly as bad as it looks now.Yes, the kanji get more complex, and yes you get used to them and you're learning the building blocks and a method of remembering them.
Starting RTK1. Questions, thoughts etc? - poblequadrat - 2015-09-06
Dudeist Wrote:I think my main confusion about doing chant, sparkle and goods is that being sets of three introduced at the same time my mind just grouped them together.It does get harder but not that much. You will eventually have to resort to completely crazy stories, but the biggest/the only real problems are synonymous keywords and burnout.
Will take that suggestion though.
BTW does it get much harder? Looking ahead even in the sample pdf, the complexity does seem to go up. I guess I am wondering if by that time being somewhat used to them and having the building blocks it won't be nearly as bad as it looks now.
Also, make sure that you get your radicals right - there are a few lessons with a lot of confusingly similar radicals, a few of which aren't really used that much at all, so make sure you learn them correctly.