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+--- Thread: Where's Khatzumoto? (/thread-12626.html)
Where's Khatzumoto? - Tzadeck - 2015-08-18
ryuudou Wrote:Creepy we know you're Khatz. You can stop now.I like the idea of Katz making an anonymous profile on this site to reveal his divorce to strangers in the third person... because, maybe that is going on, but, why?
Where's Khatzumoto? - CreepyAF - 2015-08-18
Tzadeck Wrote:Guys, guys, you're making this way too tempting for me to start dropping hints pretending that I'm Khatz.ryuudou Wrote:Creepy we know you're Khatz. You can stop now.I like the idea of Katz making an anonymous profile on this site to reveal his divorce to strangers in the third person... because, maybe that is going on, but, why?
Staaahp or my inner troll will come out. =)
But in all seriousness, it would be incredibly cool if Khatz was on the forum. I kind of doubt he is, though. I bet if he created an account and became an active member, sooner or later he would be found out. He knows that.
---
PS I also want it to be clear that I was not the one who revealed his personal details, and I'm disappointed that others did. We went from agreeing to not invade his privacy to basically doxxing him in less than 72 hours. To all you people who found out what I was referring to when I said Khatz had a rough 2014/15 but didn't share what you found, you da real MVPs.
Where's Khatzumoto? - Flamerokz - 2015-08-18
CreepyAF Wrote:PS I also want it to be clear that I was not the one who revealed his personal details, and I'm disappointed that others did. We went from agreeing to not invade his privacy to basically doxxing him in less than 72 hours. To all you people who found out what I was referring to when I said Khatz had a rough 2014/15 but didn't share what you found, you da real MVPs.Okay you basically told people how to do it (i.e. find his real name then look that up) so what did you expect. If you think you're not responsible at all then you are seriously deluded. You assumed implicit agreement when obviously not everyone on the forum is (or realistically would be) in agreement.
More importantly, this thread should have been closed a while ago considering where it was headed. Unless the mod team thinks that these sort of threads are permissible on the forum. Sigh.
Where's Khatzumoto? - dtcamero - 2015-08-18
long live the DOXX threads!! lol
on a serious note though, this guy is running a business that is taking many tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars from people around the world... off of a website. with no recourse to know more about this person, he's like a dredd pirate roberts floating on his own little island outside of any government's laws.
at least now that we have an identity established, people like the plaintiff in the case I linked to will have the ability to similarly go after him if they want their money back.
accountability is necessary in a society governed by laws.
Where's Khatzumoto? - CreepyAF - 2015-08-18
Flamerokz Wrote:Okay you basically told people how to do it (i.e. find his real name then look that up) so what did you expect. If you think you're not responsible at all then you are seriously deluded. You assumed implicit agreement when obviously not everyone on the forum is (or realistically would be) in agreement.Relax.
More importantly, this thread should have been closed a while ago considering where it was headed. Unless the mod team thinks that these sort of threads are permissible on the forum. Sigh.
I do feel responsible for creating an environment that spawned something I said I was disappointed in. I did tell people how to find the answers, but I was adamantly against the information being reposted. I think it's great if people want to seek out answers. I just am disappointed with what some people chose to do with what they discovered.
I did say that "we went from agreeing [...]" and you are absolutely right that I falsely assumed an implicit agreement when that wasn't the case or even possible. But does that change the result? No.
Flamerokz Wrote:Okay you basically told people how to do it (i.e. find his real name then look that up) so what did you expect.This forum is chalked full of fun, vibrant, and intelligent people. I expected those people to act maturely, and honestly, they overwhelmingly did. There were a few people (who I still think are great, btw) who have differing opinions from me on what should be reposted and what's too personal. That's fine. I don't understand why you have such a bee in your bonnet.
Where's Khatzumoto? - juniperpansy - 2015-08-19
I gotta agree CreepyAF is khatz!
The splendour and awe when it was revealed Jesus was hiding in our midst
Where's Khatzumoto? - Flamerokz - 2015-08-19
CreepyAF Wrote:I don't understand why you have such a bee in your bonnet.If it wasn't clear why I was annoyed, I was taking issue with your apparent (based on the earlier post) lack of awareness that you are also to blame for the consequence you are bemoaning.
As you have since clarified you feel responsible, then I was clearly mistaken.
CreepyAF Wrote:This forum is chalked full of fun, vibrant, and intelligent people. I expected those people to act maturely, and honestly, they overwhelmingly did.As a side note, plenty of immaturity has been demonstrated in this thread when it comes to anything AJATT/Khatzumoto related (for the record, I'm generally not a fan of most AJATT related things anymore). I don't think it is unreasonable to say that you could have calibrated your expectations better just from this thread alone. It is not surprising that the information you posted would serve as a catalyst for others to expose the rest of the information.
However, this is tangential to what I was originally taking issue with.
Where's Khatzumoto? - chamcham - 2015-08-19
dtcamero Wrote:http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Katyana-Rogo-Manduli/internet/All-Japanese-All-the-Time-AJATT-AJATT-SilverspoonNeutrino-Refused-to-Honour-Refund-Int-1116749What do people think of the ripoff report?
so i saw this... which i guess is what you guys were referring to. yes he probably ran through all the money and most people didn't get fluent and wanted their money back, and now he has to cut a lot of $100 checks every month.
i respectfully see it as very responsible creeping to make sure people know what will happen on the backend of a fo-shizzle guarantee... not creepy whatsoever, more like a moral responsibility. the better business bureau doesn't cover situations like this, so it is the duty of people on the internet to police shady dealers.
Was it a terrible mistake for Khatzumoto to make that guarantee?
Or is the person that filed the complaint delusional and is really at fault for not being fluent?
Any other thoughts?
Where's Khatzumoto? - CreepyAF - 2015-08-19
Flamerokz Wrote:::Extending My Creepy Hand in Offering of an Internet Handshake::CreepyAF Wrote:I don't understand why you have such a bee in your bonnet.If it wasn't clear why I was annoyed, I was taking issue with your apparent (based on the earlier post) lack of awareness that you are also to blame for the consequence you are bemoaning.
As you have since clarified you feel responsible, then I was clearly mistaken.
Ever since I mentioned Pakapa, I knew digging up new information was playing with fire. When I came to the conclusion that Khatz went AWOL for personal reasons, I began to feel guilty and attempted to make a post that would let people satisfy their curiosity, but discourage them from continuing discussion on Khatz's personal life. Ironically this was the catalyst that made the thread go in this direction (or at least the catalyst that pulled the already primed trigger). I deserve to be told off for that.
chamcham Wrote:What do people think of the ripoff report?I think the perspective of the whistleblower is hard for me to relate to. Only once have I shelled out that much money on the internet, and it was for a product I'm deeply satisfied with (computer).
Was it a terrible mistake for Khatzumoto to make that guarantee?
Or is the person that filed the complaint delusional and is really at fault for not being fluent?
Any other thoughts?
The person appears to be complaining about Silver Spoon's customer service, and that their refund is coming in instalments. This is where I feel it's hard for me to relate. If I were in that person's shoes, I would feel annoyed and tricked, but not ripped off. The refund was/is being fulfilled, just not all at once.
I've got a feeling most people don't share my sentiments, and likely for good reason- my inexperience with money in internet limbo makes me feel naive on this subject.
Where's Khatzumoto? - chamcham - 2015-08-19
Speaking of divorce, i came across some details about a 1970s show called "Banacek". George Peppard played the main character.
From Wikipedia:
"Banacek was well received by television critics, and as a result was picked up for a third season. However, before the third season could start, Peppard quit the show in order to prevent his ex-wife Elizabeth Ashley from receiving a larger percentage of his earnings as part of their divorce settlement. The complication ended any chance of reviving Banacek during Peppard's lifetime. A&E continued rebroadcasts of Banacek in syndication."
I hope Khatzumoto's situation isn't this bad.
Maybe the personal problem has nothing to do with the lack of AJATT updates.
Where's Khatzumoto? - Tzadeck - 2015-08-19
chamcham Wrote:What do people think of the ripoff report?Similar posts were made on this forum by others who requested a refund for SilverSpoon. I think the amount he charged for the service, the guarantee, and the way he decided to pay out the refunds were all extremely sketchy. It really brought my opinion of Khatz from someone promoting a flawed but inspiration method to something much darker. Granted, I think it was rooted more in stupidity than malice, but I don't treat the two as entirely separate.
Was it a terrible mistake for Khatzumoto to make that guarantee?
Or is the person that filed the complaint delusional and is really at fault for not being fluent?
Any other thoughts?
Where's Khatzumoto? - ファブリス - 2015-08-19
TheVinster Wrote:Unless the mod team thinks that these sort of threads are permissible on the forum.The "worse" we got is his name, and that he apparently is goign through/went through a divorce.
I'd rather people posted that instead of making it sound all mysterious.
Then again, if you search for *my* real name you'd find a certain Fabrice on an asian dating site. And you would think it's me. Yet it isn't. There's lots of people with my first name & surname. Doesn't help that my family name is also a first name.
Admin: With that said I agree the thread is beginning to look like "doxxing" and it's probably a good time now to stop posting anything personal about the real person behind the AJATT site.
And yes, the older forum members remember one AJATT thread turned in a big pile of flames. This thread will be closed if the discussion does not remain civil.
Where's Khatzumoto? - vix86 - 2015-08-19
ファブリス Wrote:And yes, the older forum members remember one AJATT thread turned in a big pile of flames. This thread will be closed if the discussion does not remain civil.Without fail, nearly every AJATT-related thread devolves into that. Its like some kind of curse.
Where's Khatzumoto? - JapaneseRuleOf7 - 2015-08-19
Quote:Admin: With that said I agree the thread is beginning to look like "doxxing" and it's probably a good time now to stop posting anything personal about the real person behind the AJATT site.I hope this thread doesn't get closed, because it's the most interesting thing we've had here in a very long time, ever since that guy was going to learn Japanese in like a month and get a new pickup truck from his dad. Wonder what ever happened to him? Eh, probably too busy driving his Ford Ranger to update us.
And yes, the older forum members remember one AJATT thread turned in a big pile of flames. This thread will be closed if the discussion does not remain civil.
Eh, anyway, Khatz's real name, so we know it, whatever. I've heard about "Khatz the salesman" from friends here for years. I don't know him, and don't want to know him. Leave it at that. It's certainly uncool to out personal info about people on the internet. Never heard of this "doxxing," but I assume it's some sort of NSA thing where they waterboard you, so I'd have to be against it. I mean, unless the NSA is listening, and then I'm all for it.
But it is valid to question Khatzumoto and AJATT's business practices, since he claimed a lot of amazing results that people are still chasing, along with the money they spent on his site. Just saying . . . I mean, in a civil way.
Where's Khatzumoto? - CreepyAF - 2015-08-19
JapaneseRuleOf7 Wrote:But it is valid to question Khatzumoto and AJATT's business practices, since he claimed a lot of amazing results that people are still chasing, along with the money they spent on his site. Just saying . . . I mean, in a civil way.It's too bad he didn't stick to his sentence packs and quick reference guides.
Khatz should have known better with SilverSpoon/Neutrino. First, I think the definition of fluency is kind of vague. How can you guarantee something that is ambiguous? Secondly, I think the results are more dependent on the language learner's attitude rather than the system. Why would he have a money back guarantee when he has no idea about the depths of my laziness?
I was/am always interested to know how people made out with SilverSpoon/Neutrino. Curiously, I've found little information about the results, and how fluent people got.
JapaneseRuleOf7 Wrote:Eh, anyway, Khatz's real name, so we know it, whatever.Hey man, how would you feel if your real name was posted all over some site?
Oh wait, you're linking to site with your name all over it under your avatar...oops my bad.
Where's Khatzumoto? - ファブリス - 2015-08-19
CreepyAF Wrote:Oh wait, you're linking to site with your name all over it under your avatar...oops my bad.Well "privacy" and the dangers of lack thereof are sometimes blown out of proportion. Lots of people have personal blogs with their actual names, often with plenty of details of their whereabouts. It's a matter of context I suppose.
But we're talking about a business here. I was always under the impression that you ought to be able to know who is actually running a business by their actual real names, or is that a wrong assumption?
Where's Khatzumoto? - buonaparte - 2015-08-19
ファブリス Wrote:you ought to be able to know who is actually running a business by their actual real names, or is that a wrong assumption?Your real name, your real address, your real phone number and so on.
And the most important thing: a real product, otherwise it's a church, not a business.
Where's Khatzumoto? - sholum - 2015-08-19
CreepyAF Wrote:Khatz should have known better with SilverSpoon/Neutrino. First, I think the definition of fluency is kind of vague. How can you guarantee something that is ambiguous? Secondly, I think the results are more dependent on the language learner's attitude rather than the system. Why would he have a money back guarantee when he has no idea about the depths of my laziness?It is precisely this laziness that such guarantees count on; most people who spend money on a product and then fail to use it will not try to get their money back.
The problem Khatz had was that SilverSpoon/Neutrino was way too expensive, which increased the number of people that would actually pursue the guarantee.
But yes, I've always thought that Khatz's marketing was quite poor; it's so clear that your being sold something that the thing isn't as appealing as it could be, but the writing style leaves all sorts of details about it up in the air. That's not to say it's ineffective though (I bought a couple of things when they were being offered for next to nothing).
RE: Privacy
If you're a private individual clearly trying to keep your information private, then it's wrong to reveal that information. If you have a business and are the face of that business, you should expect the minimum information to be available to everyone (name, city of residence, etc.); that doesn't mean that other personal information shouldn't be respected, though.
As a general rule, private information should be private, public information should be public. The owner of a business is public information; their personal lives aren't.
Where's Khatzumoto? - CreepyAF - 2015-08-19
ファブリス Wrote:When posting that, I wasn't 100% sure if the tone in what I was saying was being correctly conveyed. Just want to clarify that what I said to JapaneseRuleof7 in regards to his name on his site was a joke. In some places, I too use my real identity.CreepyAF Wrote:Oh wait, you're linking to site with your name all over it under your avatar...oops my bad.Well "privacy" and the dangers of lack thereof are sometimes blown out of proportion. Lots of people have personal blogs with their actual names, often with plenty of details of their whereabouts. It's a matter of context I suppose.
ファブリス Wrote:But we're talking about a business here. I was always under the impression that you ought to be able to know who is actually running a business by their actual real names, or is that a wrong assumption?Makes sense. Though my take on it is maybe only the people who are doing business with him ought to know his actual name, and I think the SilverSpooners do.
I don't know, maybe this is flawed logic. dtcamero and sholum have made convincing arguments that have got me rethinking some of my positions....Have some waffles, everyone.
![[Image: WAFFLES.jpg]](http://s27.postimg.org/4qjbgrdxr/WAFFLES.jpg)
buonaparte Wrote:And the most important thing: a real product, otherwise it's a church, not a business.This is an incredibly witty line.
You know, the ethics of posting someone's name who wants to keep it hidden aside, it's interesting that Khatz has been so enthusiastic about the quality of his products, and how well AJATT works. Yet he isn't willing to put his name on it...
Where's Khatzumoto? - ファブリス - 2015-08-19
sholum Wrote:The owner of a business is public information; their personal lives aren't.Good summary, let's keep that in mind.
Where's Khatzumoto? - kameden - 2015-08-19
I'm a little confused what you're even disappointed in Creepy. You essentially told people where to find information, so you're okay with people having the information, but as soon as someone posts it, also allowing people to have the very same information, it's somehow a lot worse. It's the exact same thing though. You are the one who posted the information, not anyone else.
Where's Khatzumoto? - Stansfield123 - 2015-08-19
ファブリス Wrote:Well "privacy" and the dangers of lack thereof are sometimes blown out of proportion. Lots of people have personal blogs with their actual names, often with plenty of details of their whereabouts. It's a matter of context I suppose.Well, it's a moral evaluation. You should never assume that your moral evaluations are universally accepted or worse, facts of reality.
But we're talking about a business here. I was always under the impression that you ought to be able to know who is actually running a business by their actual real names, or is that a wrong assumption?
It's also a little unclear what it means...ought to know their real names by what means? Should we be able to force every business owner to tell us their real name? I don't think we ought to be able to force anyone to do anything.
Or do you just mean that if we find out, it's OK to publish their real name (which I would agree with, as long as finding out doesn't involve any kind of theft or violation of privacy rights like eavesdropping).
So it all depends how Khatz' name became public information. If it was through someone violating his privacy, then publishing his name is just as immoral as the act of violation someone's privacy. On the other hand, if he just shared his name online somewhere, then it's fine.
Where's Khatzumoto? - Stansfield123 - 2015-08-19
CreepyAF Wrote:You know, the ethics of posting someone's name who wants to keep it hidden aside, it's interesting that Khatz has been so enthusiastic about the quality of his products, and how well AJATT works. Yet he isn't willing to put his name on it...I don't want to tell you my name either. Am I secretly ashamed of something too? Or could it be because your handle is CreepyAF. The creepy part is bad enough, and god knows what that last part stands for.
Where's Khatzumoto? - rochel - 2015-08-19
I think that was the problem with Khatz's business model, such as it was.. the longer-term programs were incredibly expensive (as a poster above noted), and there was a lot of obfustication about who Khatz actually was, where he was, had he actually reached the levels of Japanese fluency that he touted to others? etc. I think the last address I saw for him was a PO Box in Cambridge, MA.
I bought several of his less expensive items -- sentence packs, a bundle where I got a subscription to AJATT-Plus.. all of which I found to be good quality and beneficial. As a result, I was on his mailing list and sometime last year got a promo email for a new online program to make people able to pass JLPT 1. I didn't want it but was curious about the cost, so clicked through on it, and was stunned to see that it was over $5000 USD!
I understand not wanting to have one's personal life, location, direct phone number, etc. splashed all over the Internet. But OTOH, I think some level of visibility is required for sellers of pricy items, particularly those with such an amazingly stated guarantee such as fluency in Japanese within 999 days (which I believe was the initial term of Silverspoon). And I have to say until this thread came up, I didn't even know Khatz's real name (not that I had ever thought about it a great deal).
When I noticed that he was gone, my first cynical thought was that his absence roughly coincided with the 3 year anniversary of Silverspoon, or when the 1st enrolees would have been finishing up. I'm disappointed to read the RipoffReport complaint of the difficulty that at least one person has had in trying to get a refund. In my opinion, that should have been full and immediately given upon request, but that may have been difficult to do if there were a high number of Silverspoon students.
Where's Khatzumoto? - cophnia61 - 2015-08-19
Can someone kindly pm me what AF stands for? ._. xD