Pissed off, How does this visa thing work

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - Printable Version

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Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - David053090 - 2015-03-06

Ok so heres my situation.. hope it makes sense

I got a job as an ALT
Company is handling my work visa
I leave on March 24th , I doubt my visa will be done by then
SO I booked a one way flight to Japan because.. Im teaching duh
But the U.S travel laws state that I MUST have an onward ticket because i wont technically have a work visa until a little after I get there.
BUT if I buy the onward ticket it seems as if I am ONLY staying for 90 days.. but im not , SO if I do buy an onward ticket what do I tell immigration if they ask my purpose for japan... If I say Im going to teach they are going to be like " wheres that work visa " if they ask how im going to support myself I have to say teach... like... I cant just say visit can I???

Also, if I HAVE to buy an onward ticket, cant I just buy a ticket to Korea for only like $150 and cancel or does it HAVE to be my home country???

Like, wtf, why cant I just buy a one way.

Explain please

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - SomeCallMeChris - 2015-03-06

This is mostly a forum full of beginners with a few exceptions. One of those exceptions my know the answer to your question, but I'm going to suggest that you may have better luck in another forum, specifically:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewforum.php?f=11
(eslcafe Japan)

I'm not part of that forum but it is often recommended for those with questions about teaching abroad.

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - Melamelachan - 2015-03-06

I am in a similar boat (job to start on 1 April, but visa very probably won't be done by then). As far as I understand, you have to make the visa application from outside Japan anyway. Plus, while the actual visa application (after getting the Certificate of Eligibility) is in progress, your passport is with the Japanese embassy, so you won't be able to travel.

So, cancel your flight. Wait. Once you have your visa, get the first flight into Japan. Or better yet, let your employer get your flight. I know it sucks. (By the way, this is what it's like for scores of people wanting to work in the US. Welcome to the club.)

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - RandomQuotes - 2015-03-06

You're not supposed to but you can convert a tourist visa into a work visa. It sounds like this is what your company is doing.

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - Aikynaro - 2015-03-06

By my understanding, all you need is a ticket out of the country. I bought a fully refundable ticket back home.
Note that it's the airline that checks whether you have an outbound ticket or not, not immigration. They assume you do because they legally require the airlines to check.

Just checking: is your company a reputable non-shoddy operation?

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - scooter1 - 2015-03-06

The rules are a bit grey all around.

First off, one way flights originating from the US can be significantly more expensive than round-trip tickets. That is not always the case in other countries. This is just the airlines charging US residents outrageous prices to anyone who is unable to book simple return trips on concrete dates with significant notice.

A few years back it was clear that a one-way ticket to Japan for US residents was permissible by US authorities. So I booked the least expensive, non-direct flight using award miles. However, when I arrived for the second leg (NY-Tokyo?), the airline staff forced me to buy the return leg on the spot (airline policy). Fortunately, I had enough miles and time to book the return. Without the miles, that on-the-spot ticket would have cost a fortune.

There were some organizations that provided well discounted tickets to students and teachers. They were also easy to change the return date with zero or a minimal charge of say $100. That was an incredible program but with the spike in fuel prices and 2008 financial depression, I don't know if such programs are as good today. As an example, a few years ago, I booked a student flight with flexible return policy via one of these agents. Changing the ticket cost something like $100 plus the difference between the original return leg and a new ticket. Reading the terms, I assumed the new ticket cost would be $100 + half a one-way ticket found on-line. When the rubber hit the road, I had to speak directly with Delta and the charge was $100 + the full cost of a one way ticket - small credit for the return ticket being exchanged...outrageous. Obviously I threw the return ticket away.

I will not provide any guidance on legal or visa matters; your employer should help there. It may be worth reflecting how viable it is to enter a country with a tourist visa declaring to immigration that the purpose of the trip is work and residence. Also, Japan can be incredibly strict on foreigners that break the rules. That said, I have seen people enter Japan with tourist visas and convert them to either student or work visas in just a few weeks. Good luck.

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - vix86 - 2015-03-06

If the company that you are going to work for is called "Heart," and they are claiming they'll have a visa for you; then you should seriously reconsider. Realize coming to Japan without a work visa, means the whole thing is a gamble on YOUR dime and not the company's. You could get there and the company could decide; "You know what, we actually don't need you, see ya!"

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - jasberg - 2015-03-06

what are these US travel laws that you mention? I've flown to Japan about 10 times in the past 4 years using 1 way tickets, originating from the USA, and a few other countries. I'm going again in 3 weeks and only have a 1 way ticket. I've never heard of any such rule or been asked about anything other than where I'm going to be staying in Japan.

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - afterglowefx - 2015-03-07

vix86 Wrote:If the company that you are going to work for is called "Heart," and they are claiming they'll have a visa for you; then you should seriously reconsider. Realize coming to Japan without a work visa, means the whole thing is a gamble on YOUR dime and not the company's. You could get there and the company could decide; "You know what, we actually don't need you, see ya!"

On the other side of that I have 3-4 friends working for Heart and they've never had any issues. Not that Heart is a top-notch company or that the salary doesn't suck, but they're also not actively out there to screw you over either.

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - vix86 - 2015-03-07

There was also this reddit recently talking about Heart and some of the comments don't sound good.

They might not be trying to actively screw you over, but they also don't have your interests at Heart (lol). A company that needs you "now" on a tourist visa/waiver and can't guarantee you a work visa; isn't a good company, especially when there are other companies that have no problem squaring visas.

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - SomeCallMeChris - 2015-03-07

It occurs to me that if you traveled to Canada (or Mexico, I suppose) and -then- flew to Japan, you wouldn't have to worry about the problem at all. No Canadian airport is going to attempt to enforce such an odd US restriction, or at least I wouldn't think they would.
If the restriction applies to flying to Canada then you could simply take a train or bus, but given the special relationship between Canada and the U.S., I would find that odd.

jasberg's comment is also interesting. This rule may be more theoretical than actual if he's never run into any enforcing it.

Edit: Fwiw, I seem to recall that if you are in Japan and your visa expires or you need to change visas, you can make it all legal and fair and square by taking a day trip to Korea. I'm not sure if that would be needed to transition from tourist to work visa in your case, or if you could just file paperwork. You might however want to make note of any locations near but not in Japan that you would like to visit for a day or two.

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - Aikynaro - 2015-03-07

jasberg Wrote:what are these US travel laws that you mention? I've flown to Japan about 10 times in the past 4 years using 1 way tickets, originating from the USA, and a few other countries. I'm going again in 3 weeks and only have a 1 way ticket. I've never heard of any such rule or been asked about anything other than where I'm going to be staying in Japan.

I can't imagine there are any US travel laws, but Japan has travel laws designed to stop people from overstaying their visas. They require airlines to check the itinerary of passengers before they get on the plane to make sure that they're planning to leave the country. They've checked me both times I've been over (from Australia), and they won't let you on the plane if you can't show them something.
But, well, obviously this doesn't apply to you, for some reason...

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - vix86 - 2015-03-07

SomeCallMeChris Wrote:Edit: Fwiw, I seem to recall that if you are in Japan and your visa expires or you need to change visas, you can make it all legal and fair and square by taking a day trip to Korea. I'm not sure if that would be needed to transition from tourist to work visa in your case, or if you could just file paperwork. You might however want to make note of any locations near but not in Japan that you would like to visit for a day or two.

This Korea thing no longer happens. You can change from Travel->Work visa in country now without a problem. If your work visa expires while in country you immediately are given a "travel visa" and have 90 days to sort out your visa or have to leave.

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - David053090 - 2015-03-17

Ok so... I have a feeling I am supposed to lie...

I got a job offer to teach English in japan.
Americans have a visa for 90 days and then must go back home
my work visa will not be ready until after I arrive in Japan.
SO. when I arrive at customs and they ask me is it for business or pleasure... WHAT THE HECK DO I SAY...
If I say business I'm hit with " where is your work visa" If I say pleasure... then.. I just lied about my intent on being there.

What am I supposed to say or do when Customs asks me.. " where are you staying and whats the address and phone number " " what is your source of income "

Also, I booked a flight to Korea... will they question that and assume I will go back to japan a few days later?

So yea... what does one do in this situation? Is lying somehting im supposed to do? I heard Japan is quick to send someone back home if their story isnt straight.

Secondly, do they ask or look up any criminal records such as traffic tickets? Is my record on hand at the airport? Will they ask if I have ever been arrested? How will they know? I do not have any warrants under my name nor any " no fly zone " things but was just wondering if they have access to a background check at the airport that might stop me from going.. or can I simply say No to any questions in regards to crimes ( assuming they are true )

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - mc962 - 2015-03-17

Call the consulate in your contry and ask the procedure? I think someone who works for that section of the Japanese government might be able to give you a legal answer.

But I don't think lying is a great idea

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - gaiaslastlaugh - 2015-03-17

What mc962 said. I know in the US that if you arrive on one visa and attempt to change to another, it can be flagged as fraud, and you have to prove you didn't intend to make the switch when you originally entered the country. E.g., if you arrive on a visitor visa and then try and apply for a fiance visa, you'll have some 'splaining to do. You should ask someone at a consulate, but lying sounds like a truly bad idea.

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - SomeCallMeChris - 2015-03-17

Given vix86's response to my comment above, it sounds like you should be able to come in on a travel visa as long as you get your work visa sorted before you actually start working. But I agree with the posters that suggest you contact your consulate and make certain before you actually do it.

(If you were to lie - which I wouldn't suggest you do in the first place - but if you were to, you might be best off to say you're there for a job interview. That way it isn't surprising when you apply for a work visa the way it would be if you said you were there for sightseeing. Depending on how firm this offer is, it might not even exactly be a lie. Now I'm just speculating.... yeah, go contact your consulate already.)

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - vix86 - 2015-03-18

Consulate will probably just tell him he can't do what he is planning too if he phrases it pretty much like he is.
But I've known people that have been on a tourist waiver and changed over to a work visa in country; there was no problem. Thing is, Japan doesn't want people [trying to] come over to Japan to work without actually having a job lined up. It tends to lead to problems.

That said, I don't know what you mean by "I booked a flight to Korea." Are you saying you are going Home->Japan->Korea? And just planning to never go to Korea? Have you checked the way visa's work in Korea?

Airports can't do backgrounds checks....

gaiaslastlaugh Wrote:E.g., if you arrive on a visitor visa and then try and apply for a fiance visa

Spouse visas are kind of a different story since they are kind of a "no restriction" visa. They want to vet that the relationship is real and you just aren't getting married for the visa.

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - Aikynaro - 2015-03-18

You are probably stressing about this too much. Look at it from the point of view of a customs officer - on the scale of bad things you could possibly be doing with this setup, you're not particularly important and your intent isn't to break the law. Japanese customs is not (in my experience!) particularly strict. If you tick the boxes, they're not going to care - you're not doing anything blatantly dodgy here. If you say you're coming for pleasure (do they even ask?), it's not like it's 100% completely untrue so long as you're not working before you change your visa.

Consider that if your school is a large corporation and they are doing this to you - they have probably done this many times before. Ideally you should find some people who worked for this company and talk to them, but it is (probably!) safe to assume that the system works or they wouldn't do it. At the end of the day, it is your company who are going to explain this stuff to immigration to get you a visa - the immigration people aren't even going to look at you.

Presumably you have somewhere that you're staying that you can say if they ask?

Naturally I'm not taking any responsibility if this advice gets you deported - you should ask the company that's hiring you and get their confirmation that they will back you or at least compensate you if things go pear-shaped. Your visa is their responsibility more than yours. Ask them what to say, print out the email - at the very least you can shift the blame to them Smile

But there's a very good chance that they'll just wave you through at the airport.

edit: you do have a certificate of eligibility (or whatever it's called), right? If you have that, you can probably just wave that around if anyone asks - it should be (I actually have no idea, but I assume - you should obviously check this yourself) about as good as already having a visa as far as convincing someone that you're not in Japan to do nefarious things goes. I think you need to have a background check before you get that, so if you have any crimes on record they should have refused your visa application already.
Anyway, to restate - I don't really know anything and you should ask the people who are hiring you what's up and after you've clarified, maybe the consulate (though expect a very conservative negative kind of answer to whatever you're asking, which may be contradicted by someone else in a different department - you can never quite be sure with these big bureaucracies)

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - vix86 - 2015-03-18

Aikynaro Wrote:edit: you do have a certificate of eligibility (or whatever it's called), right?

If he had a CoE then he wouldn't be freaking out. If you have a CoE then you have a visa, it pretty much only takes a day to get it exchanged for a visa. But that's what he doesn't have, and is what the company has made promises about getting once he is in Japan.

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - Aikynaro - 2015-03-19

Oh, okay - I always thought that was just the first step in things and could be arranged overseas relatively easy - like it says on the tin, you'd be eligible to be able to get a visa, but they haven't worked out the details yet.
But hey, this goes to show why you shouldn't trust my advice Smile

I wouldn't know - a legitimate company worked this stuff out for me.

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - vix86 - 2015-03-19

Its crappy wording for the document. It'd make more sense to name it "Visa Express Certificate" or something. The CoE is basically a document that companies/people (including spouses) can apply for where they supply a lot of supporting information verifying claims; such as "Person X will have a job making X money per year," what the people will be doing in Japan, the person's background, how much liquid credit they have, etc. The MoJ looks at the docs and then issues the CoE to the company which the company then gives to you. It basically skips the need for immigration/embassy to have to verify your credentials are good enough for a visa because someone else already did it.

You can apply for a visa on your own w/o a CoE, and hope you get granted one, but that process can take months and if you don't know what things immigration likes to see then you'll probably be rejected. This is why a lot of companies use an immigration lawyer which understand how immigration works; it makes getting the CoE a more guaranteed thing. The CoE makes getting the visa issued an overnight thing basically.

Pissed off, How does this visa thing work - amillerchip - 2015-04-05

vix86 Wrote:You can apply for a visa on your own w/o a CoE, and hope you get granted one, but that process can take months and if you don't know what things immigration likes to see then you'll probably be rejected.

FWIW when I changed from Working Holiday to Engineer inside Japan, I also had to get a CoE (which the company got from Immigration), then fill out my *own* request to change the residence status and present it with the CoE back to immigration, exactly as if I was applying for a visa from scratch at an embassy outside Japan. The CoE took two weeks, the visa change took about an hour.

David053090 Wrote:WHAT THE HECK DO I SAY....

Would be interested to hear how this worked out. :-)