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kanji crosscheck - cophnia61 - 2015-02-08
I took all kanji in Nayr's deck and in JapanesePod101 and I checked which of those are not teached in japanese school. I found Nayr has only 35 while JPod has more (I don't remember the exact number). From those I checked one on one from jisho to see which were tagged as "common" (both by themselves and as part of compounds). I deleted from the list all those that jisho considers not common (I know it's not a perfect source but still...) and I'm left with those:
嬉嘘叩覗賑溢叶苺綺只貰杖飴鞄喋喧嘩噛
騙吠噌姑奕也伊栗爺翔彦醤鯉柴淵蟹葵粥晦繋揃噂儲乃桐紐咳阿舐雀瑞萌垢轢炒殆姑餃暢詫蘇蔭洒窪漕薔薇彗騙絆痺李昏釜濡溜汲捧掻婉些勿
The first list is of kanji I know and I'm sure I've seen them (some of them are often written in kana, while other like 嬉 are used in kanji all the time. The other I've seen mostly in books or songs but not so often)
The second list is of kanji I don't remember to have ever seen, what about you guys?
Of all those, which do you think deserve priority in study?
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Those from high school, but they are not in Jpod101 nor in Nayr's deck, are 264 in number. I checked them one on one and the only I recognize are those, for example the first I've seen it in Zero no Tsukaima, while the second in a facebook post from a japanese singer. The other nine I'm not even sure.
喚陪呪且剛綱遍泰墜吏孔
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Lastly, those are kanji teached from grade 1 to grade 6 which are not in Jpod101 nor in Nayr's deck:
grade 4: 郡
grade 5: 鉱
grade 6: 鋼垂朗陛班尺蚕
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My personal reflection is:
1) that kanji teached from grade 0 to grade 6 are (almost) all common enough to be both in Nyar's deck (6000 most common words) and Jpod101 (a resource aimed at foreigner who are studying the japanese language, so a good benchmark I think);
2)that kanji not teached at all in japanese school are uncommon enough to be not in Nayr's deck nor in Jpod101, with some exception like 嬉 and a bunch of other I think are important even for "beginners".
3) We are left with all those kanji teached at high school. From those there are many (264) NOT covered in Nayr deck's and Jpod101. I've checked them all and I think almost no one of them is so important from the point of view of a newbie japanese student. There remain with 865 kanji, some of those are really common, while other are not so common. For example of these teached in high school there are 100 not in RTK1, and of those 100 these are the only I know: 俺凄匂喉叱拶膝椅痩眉箸誰貼鍋鍵闇頃頬戚拳(股肘) <--- (last two I'm not sure)
Here follows a list of kanji teached in high school which are included both in Nayr or in Jpod101 dialogues (865):
Quote:冒晶呂旦胆凹凸昇占卓貞頑凡肌旬乙賄貢項刃召了如貫克肖砕削臭妙奇沼沖江汁況泊吐埼垣封涯炎煩墨埋洞尚宵宴枠棚枯朴暦燥朱薄漠桃眺黙狩猫介塔珠狂栓鉢釣銘迅迫逃巡冗輝冠享塾亭涼吉壮荘津攻獄訂詰詠諾諭栽載茂威滅渉頻肯企超赴越是堤礎壊哀猿帆幅帽錦滞刺曇雷帝瞳鐘滴昆皆渇喝旨脂敏乾吹炊軟茨培荒妨坊芳肪脱鋭贈凍妊廷歳栃蛍蛇虹妃胞泡亀竜滝豚遂嫁豪詳鮮羨唯焦礁雌奪歓濯姻壇床麻磨忍串患憩恵恐惑憂忙悦恒悟怖慌悔憎慎憾憶慕添摩犠抹抱搭抗拓拍拘摘挑括揚拠描掲掛戒刑携及扱丈更硬又双獲奴怒抜没撃殻肢茎怪叔督寂販爪妥浮奨払雄怠到致互棄充銃唆岐峠崩蜜嵐崎込翁訟溶裕鉛掌婆披被殊裂烈葬瞬趣撮恥敢聴懐慢漫罰寧環還替潜姫賢堅巨拒募劣勧励架脇脅征彼徹徴懲微衡稿稼稚愁秩称梨穫穂稲香秀透誘粘粒粧粋糧菊奥筒佐悠伯俗依侍倒偵僧儀償仙催侮褒傑符袋傾俊傍柄腐傘併瓦瓶塚幣弊換融施旋賜泥塀履握屈掘据遅漏尽沢択肩房扇炉戻涙雇顧祥祉奈尉慰襟擦抽袖軸甲押岬挿伸捜菓裸析祈哲誓訴詐尋穏侵浸寝掃浄唐逮耐需端遭槽斗錯惜措庶遮渡奔噴伴圏藤乏芝杯矛柔霧沸巧誇汚与煮賭狭挟較促距露跳躍践踏滑禍渦阪随陳隣隔隠陥控突窮丘岳浜繁締維羅緒絞絡紛紹紳累索繰継縁網緊紫縛縄幽幾玄蓄弦滋懸却脚御零齢鈴踊擬凝範厄宛腕柳酵酷酢酔鼓盆盗監濫鑑猛恨即浪娘飢飾飽既概刈凶離鈍辛宰壁避薪執叫碑陵核該譲壌嬢請債漬契喫牲隆峰縫寿籍奉嘆華睡含琴陰兼嫌鎌廉腰漂覆煙献閑潤欄闘排輩扉偉違緯韓肝汗軒芋徐途斜塗頼瀬疎剣倹衝痴症疾痢疲疫癖匠匹殴欧抑仰迎澄廃僚寮療彫影杉彩彰須膨惨珍診蚊斉剤塁渋摂跡恋湾把甘紺謀欺棋甚勘堪遣舞粗阻宜畳普譜湿顕繊霊撲僕翼洪爆恭殿井亜触購倫偏婚抵眠捕浦舗邸郊邦響郎廊盾鍛幻伺舟般盤艦弧孤暇敷沈衰靴覇呉邪雅釈審翻藩尾託為偽髪喪弾獣悩鎖誉鶴鶏援緩偶遇愚隅岡缶揺謡免逸駐駆騒駄驚篤騰虎膚虚戯慮虐鹿薦慶麗熊辱震振娠唇濃咲鬼魂魔魅襲!!!!!!雰箇癒潟俺稽采斬巾侶伎凄剥匂喉唾唄叱妬嫉塞尻崖弥挨捻拭捉拶憧湧沙氾汰潰狙芯苛蓋葛隙曖昧旺股膝肘腫膳枕椅煎玩畏痩眉窟裾箸綻蜂戴謎誰詣諦詮貼蹴酎麺鍋鍵闇頃頬餌餅挫遡爽骸戚丼畿拳阜那箋彙嗅喩惧璧貪瘍籠鬱There are some of them you would find absolutely fundamental to learn before the other? I know it's a vague question, so let say: there are kanji here you have almost never seen in resources like mainstream anime or manga like Great Teacher Onizuka or Toradora?
PS: I know this is a lot of work but I need to skim the last list, maybe to split it in two parts (first part kanji like 頑, 呂, 肌, 了, 咲, etc.. and second part kanji like 胆, 凹, 凸, 朴, 巡, 礁, 壇, 峠, 菊, 粋)
I know the fact they are both teached in Japanese High School and included in Nayr's deck or Jpod101 means they are all sort of common but I really need to do a priority list. For example 扇 is even in Genki, but I think it way more important to know kanji like 肌 first.
Even kanji like "胆, 凹, 凸, 朴, 巡, 礁, 壇, 峠, 菊, 粋" appear in Jpod101 only one time (in all dialogues from newbie to advanced), so evidently there are kanji teached in high school which can be temporarly put apart in favor of other high school kanji which are clearly more frequent.
PS: I know it's a lot of work so if someone is available to help in exchange of money let me know
kanji crosscheck - yudantaiteki - 2015-02-08
Last I had heard, all the Joyo kanji are covered in middle school and high school is just for learning whatever else you don't know.
Your list:
騙吠噌姑奕也伊栗爺翔彦醤鯉柴淵蟹葵粥晦繋揃噂儲乃桐紐咳阿舐雀瑞萌垢轢炒殆餃暢詫蘇蔭洒窪漕薔薇彗絆痺李昏釜濡溜汲捧掻婉些勿
I recognize the majority of those kanji although many of them are not especially common. Nor are any of them so rare you'll never see them. Some of them appear primarily in names. And as I've said before, the more you get into rarer and rarer kanji, the more dependent it is on what you read. For instance, in that list, 桐, 葵, and 雀 are extremely common in my reading, but that's because they are used in the names of Tale of Genji characters. Someone who reads a lot of cooking or food related stuff will know 醤油 (soy sauce) and 味噌 (miso) quite well.
kanji crosscheck - cophnia61 - 2015-02-08
yudantaiteki Wrote:Last I had heard, all the Joyo kanji are covered in middle school and high school is just for learning whatever else you don't know.Yudantaiteki thank you for your answer! I understand what you mean, for example in 6th grade they learn "尺" which I've also found in youtube comments of kill bill soundtrack xD but in general I don't think is so common as 頑 or 嬉.
Your list:
騙吠噌姑奕也伊栗爺翔彦醤鯉柴淵蟹葵粥晦繋揃噂儲乃桐紐咳阿舐雀瑞萌垢轢炒殆餃暢詫蘇蔭洒窪漕薔薇彗絆痺李昏釜濡溜汲捧掻婉些勿
I recognize the majority of those kanji although many of them are not especially common. Nor are any of them so rare you'll never see them. Some of them appear primarily in names. And as I've said before, the more you get into rarer and rarer kanji, the more dependent it is on what you read. For instance, in that list, 桐, 葵, and 雀 are extremely common in my reading, but that's because they are used in the names of Tale of Genji characters. Someone who reads a lot of cooking or food related stuff will know 醤油 (soy sauce) and 味噌 (miso) quite well.
Also "奕" is in a jpod101 lesson about gambling but it is only in that specific lesson.
So my idea was to take those kanji, especially those from high grade, and split them in "absolutely necessary" and "still common but can wait" xD
kanji crosscheck - anotherjohn - 2015-02-08
cophnia61 Wrote:Also "奕" is in a jpod101 lesson about gambling but it is only in that specific lesson.That's the only one I didn't recognise. Looks like an OCR error for 突 or something. I've seen a lot of those lately.
kanji crosscheck - cophnia61 - 2015-02-08
Anotherjhon, thank to you too!!
I know some of those kanji are easy to encounter, so they are surely common. But the same could be said of all words not in Nyar's deck, or in Core10000 and so on... in other words, as Nyar did for words selecting only the 6000 most common ones, I am trying to do the same with Kanji xD
As I said previously, all kanji taught (sorry I wrote "teached" in the other post lol ) in Japan from Grade 1 to Grade 6 are all present in Nyar's sentences, so we could see this as a confirmation that, if one student learns all kanji from grade 1 to 6, he can be sure he has learned nothing useless.
The same could be said of kanji not taught at all in japanese school: of these, those present in Nyar's deck are so few it's not a problem to learn them all if in doubt.
On the other hand the 1129 kanji taught in high school are mixed. Of those only 612 appears in Nyar's deck, and even of those 612 I'm sure there are some very common and other not so frequently used.
So my intention was to take those 612 kanji and subdivide them further in terms of frequency, but I don't know if it is feasible...
kanji crosscheck - SomeCallMeChris - 2015-02-08
奕, 晦, and 彗 are the only ones I don't see on a regular basis reading light novels.
Some are mostly only used in names, and 薔薇 only appear when バラ is spelled with kanji. Because they are a pair and context clues are usually thick around the word, you don't need to know them terribly well.
There are kanji frequency lists out there, you could cross check against those if you wanted, but I don't think it's all that worthwhile.
kanji crosscheck - cophnia61 - 2015-02-08
Lol I've realized only now that the kanji kentei is based on school grades ._. From 10 to 4 it corresponds exactly to grade 1 to 6, while 4, 3 and pre-2 are those taught in high school but conveniently subdivided in three grades, which seems exactly what I need, but I can not find a list of those kanji. If I search for example kanji kentei 4 grade list (in japanese) I find only examples of the test :/
kanji crosscheck - RandomQuotes - 2015-02-08
cophnia61 Wrote:Lol I've realized only now that the kanji kentei is based on school grades ._. From 10 to 4 it corresponds exactly to grade 1 to 6, while 4, 3 and pre-2 are those taught in high school but conveniently subdivided in three grades, which seems exactly what I need, but I can not find a list of those kanji. If I search for example kanji kentei 4 grade list (in japanese) I find only examples of the test :/http://jiten.go-kanken.com/cat/kyu.html
A list of kanji based upon grade of the Kanken
kanji crosscheck - cophnia61 - 2015-02-09
RandomQuotes Wrote:Wow perfect, thank you!cophnia61 Wrote:Lol I've realized only now that the kanji kentei is based on school grades ._. From 10 to 4 it corresponds exactly to grade 1 to 6, while 4, 3 and pre-2 are those taught in high school but conveniently subdivided in three grades, which seems exactly what I need, but I can not find a list of those kanji. If I search for example kanji kentei 4 grade list (in japanese) I find only examples of the test :/http://jiten.go-kanken.com/cat/kyu.html
A list of kanji based upon grade of the Kanken