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Pronouns Matter when Psyching Yourself Up - ファブリス - 2015-02-09
Interesting research on self-talk. I had been experimenting with using only "I" and found it made me more attentive (I got confused somehow with regularly switching between "I" & "you").. but I hadn't ... *cough* Fabrice hadn't thought of using the non-first-person pronoun instead.
Pronouns Matter when Psyching Yourself Up
It's interesting also in light of fairly recent research in the Default Mode Network. Could the switch to "you" instead of "I" help trigger less personal associations during this DMN activity? DMN also happens to be associated with depressive disorders and seems to be behind the usual anxiety/worry inducing self-referential thought.
Pronouns Matter when Psyching Yourself Up - Tzadeck - 2015-02-09
Interesting concept; never really thought about it. I sometimes refer to myself as 'I' and sometimes as 'You' I suppose.
I'm pretty skeptical though, haha. But maybe I'll try referring to myself as my first name just for fun.
Pronouns Matter when Psyching Yourself Up - sunehiro - 2015-02-09
sunehiro thinks those articles are great. It's a thing he had already thought about, and he'll read further, probably.
Pronouns Matter when Psyching Yourself Up - vileru - 2015-02-09
While reading the article, I realized that I often refer to myself as "you" or "[my first name]" when encouraging or chastising myself (but never any other time), sometimes in the same sentence. For instance, when I notice myself lagging during Anki reviews, I'll say in my mind, "[My first name], you're going to wake up and finish these reviews." When I think in Japanese, I tend to refer to myself as おまえ or あんた (「起きろ！あんたは今この全部を終わらせる」).
Pronouns Matter when Psyching Yourself Up - sholum - 2015-02-09
SWIM says that SWIM's concern over things decreases when SWIM refers to oneself as SWIM. Also, it means that SWIM technically has no responsibility over what SWIM says while referring to oneself as such, because SWIM stands for 'Someone Who Isn't Me'.
Of course, SWIM suggests never using this tactic in a legal sense, because SWIM thinks that no legal system would let one get away with it, unless they were too busy laughing their butts off while one calls oneself SWIM.
(The things one discovers when researching Huperzine A and other drugs used as 'mental performance boosters' on the internet...)
Jokes aside, I've never really noticed how often I use 'I' as opposed to other pronouns, but I know I use them. It might be worth paying attention to though, to see if it helps Sholum (feels weird to say that) with his excessive hatred of his fellow drivers during his commute.
Speaking of, I currently get around that with music, but that seems to act on a different mental exploit than referring to myself in the second or third person.
Pronouns Matter when Psyching Yourself Up - vix86 - 2015-02-09
When I think in my head on things to do or am working through problems. I use "we" way more than "I" and never by my name. This was something I had noticed years ago. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that I like to create personas to take on different parts of an argument, kind of like if it was a group sit down. All of the personas banter back and forth until we have a reasonable solution.
Pronouns Matter when Psyching Yourself Up - vileru - 2015-02-09
vix86 Wrote:I think it has a lot to do with the fact that I like to create personas to take on different parts of an argument, kind of like if it was a group sit down. All of the personas banter back and forth until we have a reasonable solution.I like this idea! Would you mind describing each persona? I think having a different persona for archetypical thinkers (e.g. the skeptic, the advocate, the diplomat, etc.) would be incredibly useful for having thorough internal dialogues.
Pronouns Matter when Psyching Yourself Up - vix86 - 2015-02-10
I can't really speak to it much since they aren't really 'flavored' like that in my head. There might be a combative type that tries to go against everything you say; this one is good for picking apart weaknesses in an idea. There might also be a few supporters with similar ideas but slightly different. Also, often times the personas are faceless, more 'voices' than actual people.
The way I think about it, is in settings mostly, and there are 3.
1) The bar/the restaurant. 2-4 people including "you." The talk is light but not combative; you are just talking over a beer.
2) The conference/meeting room. 4-6 people. Talk is a little more serious, people are trying to get at problems in an idea so there might be combative types. Not every person needs to talk either.
3) The classroom. Size can vary. There will always be a teacher though, someone putting an idea out. In this case "I" am usually a student asking questions. This setup is good for coming up with questions you don't know the answer to.
The settings create a certain mindset, because the goals in each one are entirely different.
The thing to keep in mind though is that there are always limitations in this. You don't know what you don't know.
(An embarrassing problem I've ran into with all of this though is that sometimes the "discussions" are so in depth that I've caught my self thinking they actually happened at a later point in time.)
Pronouns Matter when Psyching Yourself Up - Zgarbas - 2015-02-10
I don't really use pronouns (ah, Romance languages :p). I conjugate the verb to 1st person when condemning myself, 2nd when trying to find a solution, and impersonal when trying to figure out stuff. I always visualise myself in 3rd person, for the record, and have developed a tendency to refer to myself in the 3rd person when talking to others about myself. E.g. 'Things that would make zgarbas happy right now: pancakes' instead of 'i feel like making pancakes'.
Pronouns Matter when Psyching Yourself Up - Inny Jan - 2015-02-10
Given grammar of the Slavic languages I tend to omit pronouns and rely on a properly conjugated verb(s). In fact, I find this constant usage of "I", "you", "we" etc. in English a bit of annoyance, TBH.
Pronouns Matter when Psyching Yourself Up - sholum - 2015-02-10
Inny Jan Wrote:Given grammar of the Slavic languages I tend to omit pronouns and rely on a properly conjugated verb(s). In fact, I find this constant usage of "I", "you", "we" etc. in English a bit of annoyance, TBH.Out of curiosity, does this refer only to 'proper' English (like we attempt to use when writing) or does it include everyday speech as well? The reason I ask is because I tend to omit pronouns when speaking, if I think they're not needed.
Also out of curiosity, does the above apply to all Germanic languages or just to English?
Pronouns Matter when Psyching Yourself Up - RandomQuotes - 2015-02-10
In spoken English, you should be using pronouns almost all of the time(85%+). Partially, this is because a sentence starting with a verb is command, partially because while English verbs use to conjugate differently for everything, most conjugations have blended together. I, you, you(plural), we, they go, ; he, she, it, goes. As far as I recall, German is also non pro-drop, I don't know about the other Germanic languages; and if, I remember correctly, French is also non pro-drop.
On topic:
I like some of the others, talk to myself with 'I', and chastise myself with 'you'
Pronouns Matter when Psyching Yourself Up - Inny Jan - 2015-02-10
sholum Wrote:Out of curiosity, does this refer only to 'proper' English (like we attempt to use when writing) or does it include everyday speech as well? The reason I ask is because I tend to omit pronouns when speaking, if I think they're not needed.No, omitting pronouns is not limited to colloquial/spoken language. Even when writing formal texts (reports, thesis, applications, etc.) grammatical rules make it clear what you say/write. For example, an English sentence:
"While conducting the experiment, we noticed..."
in Polish (in an almost word-for-word translation) would go:
"W trakcie przeprowadzanego eksperymentu zauważyliśmy..."
If you wanted to make the translation really word-for-word, you would end up with:
"W trakcie przeprowadzanego eksperymentu my zauważyliśmy..."
which is not ungrammatical but highly unnatural.
Another example could be this sentence:
"The reason I ask is because I tend to omit pronouns when speaking, if I think they're not needed."
Again, in Polish could go like that:
"Pytam dlatego bo mam tendencję do opuszczania zaimków w trakcie mówienia, jeżeli uważam, że są one niepotrzebne."
There is no "I" ("Ja") in the Polish version anywhere, while in the English version you put three "I"s in there.
Pronouns Matter when Psyching Yourself Up - sholum - 2015-02-11
@Inny Jan
I see... So even the places where English considers pronouns absolutely necessary, the equivalent Polish probably won't.
So, is it kind of like how, in Japanese, once the topic is set, it's unnatural to use pronouns? I only have experience with Polish from when I was a child, and that was just a couple of words/phrases I picked up from my friend's conversations with his grandmother.
I'll have to look up some basics, just to get an idea.
@RandomQuotes
I was aware that we used pronouns a lot in English, but that's quite a bit, isn't it. While having never formally learned the bit about sentences beginning with verbs, that makes perfect sense; perhaps most of the pronoun drops in colloquial speech I mentioned are less pronoun drops and more just 'rude' ways of speaking.
@vix86
Occasionally, when I have internal dialogues, I forget that they were internal. But yes, they are a very useful way to process complex information or come up with plans for the future; almost like having an actual community deciding together on what to do.
I've used this process with budgeting (tightening and loosening) to great effect. For example, since I'd personally bundle up and make a fire (cook on it too, if it was there) before I'd turn on the heat, I can't decide based on my own preferences. By 'conversing' with personalities that value different things, 'we' can each rationalize what order of action is best; in this case, I turn on the heater so that I can be warm while at lower risk of fire or poisoning (or having to wake up every hour or so to keep it warm), but I'll only turn it up enough to be comfortable while bundled under blankets; a fair balance.
Works good on getting over personal stubbornness more quickly as well.
On Topic:
Today, while cursing myself out for doing poorly on a test, I realized that I don't use pronouns at all while insulting myself. Maybe that's a bit of an insult itself?